Throat Ream 9mm PCC?

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: I used a Manson finish reamer in 9x23. The barrel is a KAW (Faxon) 16".  Thanks, Eric

Edited November 24, 2016 by Aircooled6racer

[bwikel]

I used a brand new Manson throating reamer but my barrel was nitrite coated. 

[Flatland Shooter]

41 minutes ago, bwikel said:

I used a brand new Manson throating reamer but my barrel was nitrite coated. 

How long did it take you and was there any damage to the reamer. A Manson reamer and T-handle extension are on my shopping list.

Until this thread came up I had no idea how hard nitride coated is.

[bwikel]

It took me about 2 hours going slow but it didn't damage the throating reamer. a finish reamer set.up for more freebore may work better, I'm not sure. 

[bwikel]

11 hours ago, Flatland Shooter said:

Until this thread came up I had no idea how hard nitride coated is.

I don't think the coating is that much harder but the process used hardens the metal being coated. 

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: Depending on the nitriding process it can harden the metal down 0.006" or so. They nitride crankshafts for cars to toughen them up. They used to nitride old Porsche connecting rods on the S models and race engines as well. Go slow and use good tapping fluid when reaming the throat. Thanks, Eric

[Bamboo]

Good idea to use a finish 9x23 chamber reamer.  I thought about using a 9mm finish reamer, but don't have a reamer stop, and I was going to do it by hand (no lath) and didn't trust myself as the headspace between my bolt and chamber is good now.

So, I had no issues throating mine, took about 45 minutes start to finish.  I checked with some dummy rounds and cleared chips and lubed the reamer every 2-3 turns.   Like Aircooled says, go slow and use a good cutting fluid.  I have used ATF with a splash of kerosene or Jet A added to the ATF on 45acp/9mm/38 super finish chamber reamers in the past with good success and that is what I used for the KAW barrel. I cut it by hand with a Manson throat reamer to accept 160gr bullets loaded as long as the mags would allow.  Mansons are +0.001 so the heavier cast and coated bullets fit tight now, but 147 jacketed and plated are fine.  I also have a clymer throater (+,002) and will touch it up with that reamer to open it up for coated.  But, I wanted to try shooting it after using the Manson and shot a match with it yesterday - Worked fine with 124 gr lead bullets (not coated) and there was no leading in the barrel. 

I used the Manson finish throater at first as a rougher.  They are only $40 and if I ruined it no big deal (they will resharpen for something like $25 or $30, or you can do it yourself).  The Clymer is more expensive and I didn't want to just start with that one.   BTW - the Manson survived intact and will live to throat again.  I did get one small burr on a flute in the beginning which I was able to remove with a stone. That was probably my fault.  The Manson gave a nice finish and if I had planned only shooting jacketed or plated I'd stop here.

One reason I think it is worth throating the KAW Valley, is because the barrel only weights 19 oz.  This is the lightest 16" 9mm barrel I've seen...and they are inexpensive.  If i didn't like to tinker I'd probably just have gone with a JP barrel as they seem to be reamed to take coated and longer profiles from the factory.

Thanks for all the input, i appreciate reading about others thoughts and experiences. 

Edited November 24, 2016 by Bamboo

[11287]

I have the Kaw Valley 16" barrel. The barrel shoots ting group and I like the light weight. However, I have to load very short. I have been following this post and was going to buy the reamer and handle at Brownell's to ream the barrel

 

then I was on JP Rifles website this morning. They are having a 15% off Black Friday sale. I was able to buy their 16" 9mm barrel for 147.90 delivered. I figured I will swap barrels and save the cost of reamer, handle and cutting fluid. I'll just sell the Kaw Valley barrel to someone that wants to load short or ream  the throat. 

[IntenseImage]

Anyone running an Xtreme 147rn around 1.14 oal w a KVP barrel?

[Bluemooncricket]

6 hours ago, Bamboo said:

Good idea to use a finish 9x23 chamber reamer.  I thought about using a 9mm finish reamer, but don't have a reamer stop, and I was going to do it by hand (no lath) and didn't trust myself as the headspace between my bolt and chamber is good now.

So, I had no issues throating mine, took about 45 minutes start to finish.  I checked with some dummy rounds and cleared chips and lubed the reamer every 2-3 turns.   Like Aircooled says, go slow and use a good cutting fluid.  I have used ATF with a splash of kerosene or Jet A added to the ATF on 45acp/9mm/38 super finish chamber reamers in the past with good success and that is what I used for the KAW barrel. I cut it by hand with a Manson throat reamer to accept 160gr bullets loaded as long as the mags would allow.  Mansons are +0.001 so the heavier cast and coated bullets fit tight now, but 147 jacketed and plated are fine.  I also have a clymer throater (+,002) and will touch it up with that reamer to open it up for coated.  But, I wanted to try shooting it after using the Manson and shot a match with it yesterday - Worked fine with 124 gr lead bullets (not coated) and there was no leading in the barrel. 

I used the Manson finish throater at first as a rougher.  They are only $40 and if I ruined it no big deal (they will resharpen for something like $25 or $30, or you can do it yourself).  The Clymer is more expensive and I didn't want to just start with that one.   BTW - the Manson survived intact and will live to throat again.  I did get one small burr on a flute in the beginning which I was able to remove with a stone. That was probably my fault.  The Manson gave a nice finish and if I had planned only shooting jacketed or plated I'd stop here.

One reason I think it is worth throating the KAW Valley, is because the barrel only weights 19 oz.  This is the lightest 16" 9mm barrel I've seen...and they are inexpensive.  If i didn't like to tinker I'd probably just have gone with a JP barrel as they seem to be reamed to take coated and longer profiles from the factory.

Thanks for all the input, i appreciate reading about others thoughts and experiences. 

I really like the lightweight of the KVP as well. Their Konza rail is fairly svelte too. The rifle transitioned very well at my first SC match. I'm eager to try it for USPSA.

I'm not entirely sure I didn't dull the reamer I used a little bit. Since it was borrowed, I'd like to return it in good condition. Would you elaborate on the resharpening process?

[Bamboo]

Yeah, I am liking the feel of the KVP upper a lot, even that silly linear comp.   

Anyway, really the best way is to send it back to the reamer maker and have them do it.  They have a grinding set up for the helical flutes. Since this is borrowed, that is the way I would recommend as one can easily ruin a reamer by changing the cutting angle. 

The poor man's way is to use a very fine and flat stone (with water or oil) and lightly run it along the flute without undercutting the edge smaller than the circumference of the reamer..  The goal is not so much to remove material, just to bring back an edge.  It doesn't take much.  I've also used a copper penny and ran it along the flute to bring back some of the sharpness , I think this takes the burr off the back relief which brings back the edge.  An old tool and die guy showed me that trick.  I'm not a machinist, only a hack.who once had a mill and lath in the garage.   

Good Luck!

Edited November 25, 2016 by Bamboo

[Bluemooncricket]

Thanks Bamboo! I'll contact Clymer.

[bwikel]

Good luck getting Clymer on the phone. I tried for a week then called Manson and my call was answered the first time. 

[Bamboo]

Manson will sharpen other makers tools per their catalogue for about $30 (it says call for price), if you can't get clymer on the phone/email you can call Manson. 

[jrswanson1]

On 11/22/2016 at 5:46 PM, JRM83 said:

Between the cost of the reamer and the handle it doesn't make sense to buy that equipment just for one barrel. Does anyone know of a smith that will do the work? A local guy in Northern VA would be a plus as well.

That's a good question.  I'm in the same boat, in the same area.  I'd call Hatfield's in Manassas on Tuesday, as they're closed for the weekend.  Maybe Engage Armament in Maryland would do it?  Scott's may be able to do it, but they have a serious backlog. 

[jrswanson1]

On 11/22/2016 at 5:46 PM, JRM83 said:

Between the cost of the reamer and the handle it doesn't make sense to buy that equipment just for one barrel. Does anyone know of a smith that will do the work? A local guy in Northern VA would be a plus as well.

That's a good question.  I'm in the same boat, in the same area.  I'd call Hatfield's in Manassas on Tuesday, as they're closed for the weekend.  Maybe Engage Armament in Maryland would do it?  Scott's may be able to do it, but they have a serious backlog. 

[jwalter]

Does anyone have any experience with the barrels being made by Ballistic Advantage?  I would to be able run XTreme bullets. 

[MikeRush]

1 hour ago, jwalter said:

Does anyone have any experience with the barrels being made by Ballistic Advantage?  I would to be able run XTreme bullets. 

I have one on the way. I don't think I have any extremes left, but in my experience they will typically chamber if coated lead will. I should be testing it next week.

[bwikel]

I have a BA barrel and I had to throat mine. It's nitrided and was a hard to cut by hand. My coated 147gr bullets would not drop and spin at 1.15 oal. 

Edited November 28, 2016 by bwikel

[noexcuses]

I have a reamer on the way for my KAW 16"barrel.  Should be good to go at that point.;)

 

[Flatland Shooter]

14 hours ago, bwikel said:

My coated 147gr bullets would not drop and spin at 1.15 oal. 

That was before reaming, right?  

Did you use a Manson reamer (+.001) or a Clymer reamer (+.002)?

[bwikel]

3 hours ago, Flatland Shooter said:

That was before reaming, right?  

Did you use a Manson reamer (+.001) or a Clymer reamer (+.002)?

Yes before reaming they would not, now they will pass the plunk test. I used a Manson throating reamer. 

[noexcuses]

my Clymer throat reamer showed up today and I can now run MG 124 JHP's to 1.15. No reason to go longer as that is as long as the glock mags will allow.

WOw the barrel was tough to get through the coating. Once through it cut nicely.

[JMike]

On 11/21/2016 at 8:59 PM, Bluemooncricket said:

A clymer reamer got my Kaw Valley barrel in shape to accept my Blue Bullet reloads. Befor I reamed it I could just barely get some Federal HST 124 gr to chamber. The clymer actually opened up the chamber at the case mouth and lengthened the freebore as well. I've had no problems so far and I get the feeling this combo will feed everything, even when filthy.

 

Any updates on how your Kaw Valley barrel is doing? 

Myself and a buddy have the same barrel. We are having extraction issues on "unload and show clear" while using the NFA BCG at matches. Otherwise the barrel and bcg runs great. We have had no problems with chambering a round at all. I am relatively certain this problem its related to the barrel chamber. We have tried coated BB (135 gr) and plated Extreme projectiles all loaded to an OAL of 1.10. My guess is that if I take the bullets down to the SAAMI minimum of 1.00 OAL, it may solve the problem but I really don't want to load that short as I also reload for 9mm pistol. 

I asked a local gunsmith about reaming the barrel and the first thing he asked me if it was a Kaw Valley barrel. When I replied in the affirmative, he stated that those barrel were extremely hard and that he had ruined his reamer trying to fix a barrel for another customer. He also stated that he had three other customers that were experiencing the same issues as we were. 

Edited December 11, 2016 by JMike
clarification

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: Another option to throat the KAW valley barrel would be to put it in a lathe and bore it a little deeper just as a reamer does. Or you could just buy a JP barrel that is already throated deep enough. I do like the lightness of the KAW valley barrel though. Thanks, Eric

Edited December 12, 2016 by Aircooled6racer