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Throat Ream 9mm PCC?


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I have the complete Kaw Valley upper. I liked how light the rifle was but had the exact same problem. I was able to load Bear Creek 125's at 1.08 and it ran fine. I was going to team the barrel. Then I saw JP had a thanksgiving sale. I got their 16" 9mm barrel for $136 delivered. That was about the same price as it was going to be for the reamer, handle and cutting fluid. I ran it today in a USPSA match without issue with the JO barrel  I was able to load much longer

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2 hours ago, Aircooled6racer said:

Hello: Another option to throat the KAW valley barrel would be to put it in a lathe and bore it a little deeper just a reamer does. Or you could just buy a JP barrel that is already throated deep enough. I do like the lightness of the KAW valley barrel though. Thanks, Eric

Thanks Eric. I am kind of a "non-tool intensive" gunsmith. If I can fix it, great and if I can't, I'd rather just drop it off and have a real gunsmith fix it.

I've looked at the JP barrels but DAMN, they are expensive!

The lightness of the KAW Valley barrel is what has attracted many of us. I am surprised that so many have had problems with these Faxon/KAW Valley barrels and the manufacturer doesn't have a damn thing to say about it. I'm even more surprised at the lemmings that write glowing reviews that say everything is great without every having put the barrel through its paces at a match. 

Thanks, Mike

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13 minutes ago, 11287 said:

I have the complete Kaw Valley upper. I liked how light the rifle was but had the exact same problem. I was able to load Bear Creek 125's at 1.08 and it ran fine. I was going to team the barrel. Then I saw JP had a thanksgiving sale. I got their 16" 9mm barrel for $136 delivered. That was about the same price as it was going to be for the reamer, handle and cutting fluid. I ran it today in a USPSA match without issue with the JO barrel  I was able to load much longer

 

Thanks 11287! I guess I will have to keep my  eyes open for that same deal. That deal would probably be worth it in the long run vs getting someone to ream the KAW Valley barrel I have.

Are there any other solutions any of you reading this thread might know of in the NC/SC area that doesn't involve me wrenching on this barrel? I would prefer to take it to a gunsmith.

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Mike: You have to remember that we are the sick bastards that actually shoot the hell out of our guns. Most buy a box of ammo and shoot 10 rounds and put the gun away. Shooting guns in a match brings out the good and bad and what you have to work on. If the rifle does not work 100% it has to be worked on so it does or else you will be way down on the score board. I like the light weight of the KAW valley barrel as well and that is why I chose it. I am sure KAW is just using a standard reamer and not throating the barrel at all for different bullet shapes. Thanks, Eric

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5 hours ago, JMike said:

 

Any updates on how your Kaw Valley barrel is doing? 

Myself and a buddy have the same barrel. We are having extraction issues on "unload and show clear" while using the NFA BCG at matches. Otherwise the barrel and bcg runs great. We have had no problems with chambering a round at all. I am relatively certain this problem its related to the barrel chamber. We have tried coated BB (135 gr) and plated Extreme projectiles all loaded to an OAL of 1.10. My guess is that if I take the bullets down to the SAAMI minimum of 1.00 OAL, it may solve the problem but I really don't want to load that short as I also reload for 9mm pistol. 

I asked a local gunsmith about reaming the barrel and the first thing he asked me if it was a Kaw Valley barrel. When I replied in the affirmative, he stated that those barrel were extremely hard and that he had ruined his reamer trying to fix a barrel for another customer. He also stated that he had three other customers that were experiencing the same issues as we were. 

It's running great, so far no problems at all. I never even tried to chamber a round from the magazine before reaming. I had placed my order and then stumbled across the short freebore information. When it arrived, I plunk tested some factory defense ammo and my reloads. The reloads weren't even close to dropping in so I proceeded to fix the issue. Sharing ammo was a huge appeal in running a 9mm carbine. After reaming I can run 125 Blue Bullets out to 1.14. All is well.

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17 hours ago, Aircooled6racer said:

Mike: You have to remember that we are the sick bastards that actually shoot the hell out of our guns. Most buy a box of ammo and shoot 10 rounds and put the gun away. Shooting guns in a match brings out the good and bad and what you have to work on. If the rifle does not work 100% it has to be worked on so it does or else you will be way down on the score board. I like the light weight of the KAW valley barrel as well and that is why I chose it. I am sure KAW is just using a standard reamer and not throating the barrel at all for different bullet shapes. Thanks, Eric

Yep, you are right and I agree 100% Eric!

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  • 3 weeks later...

I have the ATI PCC that uses the NFA Glock lower, and I don't know if NFA also makes the barrel but I do know it likes short loaded 9mm. I can run my 100gr cast RN's loaded short just fine, but anything longer and they stick in the rifling. In fact they stick so hard the barrel acts as a bullet puller if I try to extract a round instead of firing. I used a brand new Clymer throat reamer on it Monday so I'll see how it shoots this weekend. The barrel is melonite coated and I guess I didn't use enough fluid because I ruined the cutting flutes on it. It at least passes the plunk test with my ammo now though. Hopefully it remains accurate as it was pretty easy to hit bowling pins at 200 yards with 100gr RN over 4gr of Bullseye before.


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I had Beven Grams over at Grams Engineering ream my KVP barrel. Nearly everything would fail the plunk test on this barrel unless I loaded ridiculously short (even factory ammo had issues). Now I can chamber even my long loaded 9 Major rounds from my open gun (No I didn't shoot them). No loss in accuracy afterwards either.

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I just had to ream the throat on a nitrided 9mm barrel. Tried by hand as I've done with several pistol barrels, but wasn't going to happen. I chucked it up in the lathe and got it done with use of lots of oil. Used a Manson reamer and doesn't appear to be damaged at all looking with magnifying glass.

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On 12/11/2016 at 7:26 PM, Aircooled6racer said:

Mike: You have to remember that we are the sick bastards that actually shoot the hell out of our guns. Most buy a box of ammo and shoot 10 rounds and put the gun away. Shooting guns in a match brings out the good and bad and what you have to work on. If the rifle does not work 100% it has to be worked on so it does or else you will be way down on the score board. I like the light weight of the KAW valley barrel as well and that is why I chose it. I am sure KAW is just using a standard reamer and not throating the barrel at all for different bullet shapes. Thanks, Eric

Thanks for the info. Was it very expensive?

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1 hour ago, JMike said:

Thanks for the info. Was it very expensive?

Hello: What was expensive? The 4 uppers I am building? I am learning a lot in the process. I may end up selling some off once I learn a little more on what works and what does not. Two of them are working great and the other two are waiting on parts or stuff I need to make for them. Thanks, Eric

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I had Beven Grams over at Grams Engineering ream my KVP barrel. Nearly everything would fail the plunk test on this barrel unless I loaded ridiculously short (even factory ammo had issues). Now I can chamber even my long loaded 9 Major rounds from my open gun (No I didn't shoot them). No loss in accuracy afterwards either.



Thanks for the info. Was it very expensive?


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Hello: What was expensive? The 4 uppers I am building? I am learning a lot in the process. I may end up selling some off once I learn a little more on what works and what does not. Two of them are working great and the other two are waiting on parts or stuff I need to make for them. Thanks, Eric



Sorry Eric, that question wasn't meant for you. I really don't know how your post got quoted but evidently, I must have quoted the wrong one.

Happy New Year!


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$20 for the labor itself plus the cost of shipping. If I had to do it again I would have had the barrel shipped directly to him from wherever it was purchased instead of assembling the upper first. Shipping would have been a lot cheaper.

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I have the ATI PCC that uses the NFA Glock lower, and I don't know if NFA also makes the barrel but I do know it likes short loaded 9mm. I can run my 100gr cast RN's loaded short just fine, but anything longer and they stick in the rifling. In fact they stick so hard the barrel acts as a bullet puller if I try to extract a round instead of firing. I used a brand new Clymer throat reamer on it Monday so I'll see how it shoots this weekend. The barrel is melonite coated and I guess I didn't use enough fluid because I ruined the cutting flutes on it. It at least passes the plunk test with my ammo now though. Hopefully it remains accurate as it was pretty easy to hit bowling pins at 200 yards with 100gr RN over 4gr of Bullseye before.


This was an expensive lesson. Just got back from the range with the reamed barrel, and it is now a junk barrel. Went from about 1.5" groups at 25 yards to 3"+ groups depending on ammo. My 100gr loaded to 1.08" are 4-5" groups now. The 160gr loaded to 1.158" are still just about 2.5", but basically unacceptable for much of anything. Guess this will go back in the safe until I can afford a JP barrel to replace this. I know those barrels don't need any work, so that's my safest bet going forward. Pretty bummed about this right now.


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1 hour ago, 1911luvr said:

 


This was an expensive lesson. Just got back from the range with the reamed barrel, and it is now a junk barrel. Went from about 1.5" groups at 25 yards to 3"+ groups depending on ammo. My 100gr loaded to 1.08" are 4-5" groups now. The 160gr loaded to 1.158" are still just about 2.5", but basically unacceptable for much of anything. Guess this will go back in the safe until I can afford a JP barrel to replace this. I know those barrels don't need any work, so that's my safest bet going forward. Pretty bummed about this right now.


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Hello: Wow. Did you cut it off center or too deep? I did my barrel and it shoots just as well if not better than it did before. If you are looking for a stainless barrel you can look at the Wilson Arms ones. They are throated deep just like the JP ones are. Sorry to hear about your messed up barrel. Maybe try some different bullets and loads. Thanks, Eric

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1 hour ago, 1911luvr said:

 


This was an expensive lesson. Just got back from the range with the reamed barrel, and it is now a junk barrel. Went from about 1.5" groups at 25 yards to 3"+ groups depending on ammo. My 100gr loaded to 1.08" are 4-5" groups now. The 160gr loaded to 1.158" are still just about 2.5", but basically unacceptable for much of anything. Guess this will go back in the safe until I can afford a JP barrel to replace this. I know those barrels don't need any work, so that's my safest bet going forward. Pretty bummed about this right now.


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I would load longer and test. Those groups will change.

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Hello: Wow. Did you cut it off center or too deep? I did my barrel and it shoots just as well if not better than it did before. If you are looking for a stainless barrel you can look at the Wilson Arms ones. They are throated deep just like the JP ones are. Sorry to hear about your messed up barrel. Maybe try some different bullets and loads. Thanks, Eric



I must have cut too deep, but I went just long enough to pass the plunk test with my 160gr loads. I'll have to try some additional loads but the results from today we're not very promising.

I'll look up the Wilson Arms barrels. Do you have experience with them?


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Hello: I am using a 16" stainless Wilson Arms barrel on one of my uppers I built. You can load out to 1.170" OAL since I just tested one of my open loads to see if it would pass the plunk test. It does. I did lighten it since it has a heavier contour than I like. I am very happy with the accuracy out to 50 yards since that is as far as I have tested it and should be good enough for USPSA PCC. I load 1.140-1.150 OAL for Glock 17 mags. Thanks, Eric

IMG_0652.JPG

Edited by Aircooled6racer
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14 hours ago, 1911luvr said:

 


I must have cut too deep, but I went just long enough to pass the plunk test with my 160gr loads. I'll have to try some additional loads but the results from today we're not very promising.

I'll look up the Wilson Arms barrels. Do you have experience with them?


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I'm wondering if maybe something else is going on as others have indicated.  I intentionally long throated my KVA barrel for a couple of reasons that may or may not be scientific or germane to this conversation.  But, the point is in that barrel bullets have to make a substantial jump (like .230"-ish) before they engage the rifling lead-in.  My accuracy is very good.  With a good bullet I can shoot a paster out at 20 yards off bags.  In fact, the accuracy improved after I throated the barrel (might have been a new barrel vs. broken in barrel effect). 

I'd suggest taking a look for rough lead ins and/or asymmetry of your throating job.  Also, might want to run a hundred or so jacketed bullets to burnish the fresh cut lead in.

The barrel may yet be salvageable. 

 

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