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Does anyone separate expanding/belling and the powder drop?


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If using a 650, does anyone ever bell the case mouth on one station and then load the powder on the next, separating the two functions? Of course, you'd have to give up the powder check...not a great idea...but I'm curious if anyone sees an advantage to this. 

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The only advantage I see is it would probably be much easier to set up.  My powder through expander was such a PITA to set up.  I still can't believe how much tinkering it took to get that right.  Other than that I cant imagine why you would want to split them up.  There are 2 possible very worthwhile options for that extra station.  To me they far exceed splitting up the powder drop and expander.  You can run either a powder check which I chose or a bullet feeder.  I opted for the RCBS lock out die which I love.  Many will say they love the bullet feeder but the insurance you get from the lock out die is priceless to me.

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On my 650 I use the 1050 swage hold down die for expansion in position 2, and a RCBS powder hopper in position 3, because the RCBS does so much better with consistent drops. I see no need for a powder cop because I look in every case and verify powder before placing a bullet in the seat position, so I don't miss the powder cop...

jj

Edited by RiggerJJ
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I'm not really familiar with 1050 stuff...yet. I assume the swage hold down die expands the case mouth? It does seem like the drum style powder measures that RCBS/Hornady/Redding...etc use do seem to have the edge in consistency. 

It is more difficult to blow yourself up using a self indexing press but I expect I could manage it...However, it is true that all the folks using Mr. Bullet feeders don't seem to worry too much about it. 

Anyone use one of those mirror widgets to bankshot a look into the case?

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I run on a 1050, but I give up powder check for a M-Die. I eliminate sticking brass due to the Dillon expander contacting the water tumbled brass (with clean interior) during belling the case mouth. I cast my bullets and use Hiteck coating, the Mdie gives me my proper neck tension with minimal working of the brass. I look at my powder levels while loading. On some calibers I use a powder check and use the M die in the swager station.

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I have used the M-Die and I really like it. I too use the Hi-Tek coating on cast lead. I have a 650 with a GSI bullet feeder. The bullets run great through it but I'm thinking things may be improved a bit by separating the powder drop and case expansion and using an M-Die. I'm really paranoid about giving up the powder check station though. I realize that I'm not likely to get a double charge because 2 drops of the load I use would overflow the case. I could get a squib though...

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I think I have definitely loaded north of 100k rounds on my 1050.  I have NEVER(knock on wood) had a squib off of that machine.  I dont use a powder check die.

I would personally not want to run the M-die AFTER the powder throw though.  2 reasons: the mandrel is a bit long and could get into the powder depending on the powder used and the amount.  And #2 would be possible brass shavings as mine tends to produce very small shavings.  I only use mine on 300blk and my brass is fully prepped so I have no need for the swage station on my loading tool head and have the M-Die installed there.

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I'm just getting started with a 1050 but was surprised that it belled the case in two stations - initially with the swage hold down die, and then again with the powder drop/expander.  I agree with above poster that the PTE is finicky to setup.  I'm not sure if one can completely remove the expanding with PTE step and do the belling with only the Swage hold down station?  If so I may make that adjustment on my 1050.

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2 hours ago, 78Staff said:

I'm just getting started with a 1050 but was surprised that it belled the case in two stations - initially with the swage hold down die, and then again with the powder drop/expander.  I agree with above poster that the PTE is finicky to setup.  I'm not sure if one can completely remove the expanding with PTE step and do the belling with only the Swage hold down station?  If so I may make that adjustment on my 1050.

The expander/hold down die at the swage station on the 1050 is not meant to bell the case. It's only a case mouth expander. The powder drop station on the 1050 is just a "powder through die" unlike the 550 and 650's "powder through expander die", the powder through die on the 1050 only bells case mouths; it is not an expander.

So a quick recap.... case mouths are *expanded* on a 1050 at the swaging station, and they are *belled* at the powder drop station.

Edited by Phlier
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28 minutes ago, Phlier said:

The expander/hold down die at the swage station on the 1050 is not meant to bell the case. It's only a case mouth expander. The powder drop station on the 1050 is just a "powder through die" unlike the 550 and 650's "powder through expander die", the powder through die on the 1050 only bells case mouths; it is not an expander.

So a quick recap.... case mouths are *expanded* on a 1050 at the swaging station, and they are *belled* at the powder drop station.

Gotcha, yeah I went and fiddled with my 1050 after posting earlier and see how the process goes now :).

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Yes I do - I own the Dillon 650 ( about 12 years old in fact). Let me say I am a low volume shooter compared to others on this forum. My main round is 45 Colt.

My process is this: First pass with fired brass, universal de-capper, neck size with a normal 45 Colt resizing die, check the balance of the case by running it through a Lee factory crimp die without the crimping insert, bell using a RCBS M die. 

Then pin clean the cases

Second Pass : prime the cases

Third Pass: Powder charge, bullet seating, final crimp.

Again I am a low volume shooter and want a very precise 45 Colt round which is medium to mild. This works for me and allows me to have brass in various stages without dedicating long hours at the reloading press.

Edited by jeffz
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On Friday, October 21, 2016 at 8:06 PM, Edge40 said:

The only advantage I see is it would probably be much easier to set up.  My powder through expander was such a PITA to set up.  I still can't believe how much tinkering it took to get that right.  Other than that I cant imagine why you would want to split them up.  There are 2 possible very worthwhile options for that extra station.  To me they far exceed splitting up the powder drop and expander.  You can run either a powder check which I chose or a bullet feeder.  I opted for the RCBS lock out die which I love.  Many will say they love the bullet feeder but the insurance you get from the lock out die is priceless to me.

Are you using a dillon powder setup? 

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On 10/22/2016 at 11:38 AM, AbitNutz said:

On my 650 I'm thinking about changing to the following order:

#1 Size/decap/prime

How do you plan to decap and prime at the same station?

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2 hours ago, TDA said:

How do you plan to decap and prime at the same station?

Are you familiar with the 650? Station #1 is where the primer seater is. The decapping die must be located in there. If you don't decap on the downstroke there's no place to seat the primer when prime on the upstroke. 

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I have a 650.

Station one is decap and resize on the handle down stroke.

Station two is prime on the handle upstroke and expand/flare, and powder drop on the down stroke.

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On 10/22/2016 at 11:38 AM, AbitNutz said:

On my 650 I'm thinking about changing to the following order:

#1 Size/decap/prime

You can't do all of that in station #1. 

Priming occurs on station #2.

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Funny that they made the 550 handle size/decap/prime differently from the 650!  It handles size/decap/prime at the same location on the tool head with the prime being done on the upstroke on both presses.  Not that familiar with the 650, so if what you say is accurate, it seems odd to me that it would be different from the other press in that respect.

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19 minutes ago, Alan550 said:

Funny that they made the 550 handle size/decap/prime differently from the 650!  It handles size/decap/prime at the same location on the tool head with the prime being done on the upstroke on both presses.  Not that familiar with the 650, so if what you say is accurate, it seems odd to me that it would be different from the other press in that respect.

It's due to the auto-indexing. With the 550 the shell late is manually advanced, allowing more than 1 operation to happen in the station.  SDB, 650, and 1050 all index on the up stroke.

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I do use a extra expander die when I am reloading lead or poly coated bullets.  I am using a 1050 and when reloading 9mm I found it best to use a 40 S&W Hornday expander die after my powder fill station.  By trial and error, I found that using the 40 S&W expander belled the case just a bit more gently than using the 9MM expander.  This allows me to just widen the case mouth enough to seat the bullet without risk of shaving the lead or the poly/moly coated bullets without over over working the brass.

I installed the case mouth expander after my powder station, then then seat the bullet by hand and run it thru the bullet seater and separate taper crimp dies.  Works great!

I don't use a separate expander die if I am reloading FMJ rounds and find the belling from the powder measure expander is sufficient.

 

 

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