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Cons for para/armscor 2011


obsessiveshooter

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Hi all,

I'm considering going to a 2011 for Limited. Cost is a major factor. As such, I'm looking at Rock Island 2011s and the MAC 3011 SSD, and I'm more interested in the latter. (Ive never read a bad review of anything MAC makes, and I could get a full featured bull barrel pistol for around 900. )

Both of these use Para style mags. I know the Para guns had issues and getting magazines to run properly was always a big concern. But now with MBX making magazines, it seems the mag issue should be solved.

So, if reliable mags are easy to get, what would the remaining drawbacks be for these two options, vs an STI or custom 2011?

Please, give me something more constructive than "save up a little longer".

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Para and RIA do not make 2011's, they make high capacity 1911's. Once you get them running there's nothing wrong with them for minor, they work just fine. Not recommended for major, they're not really designed to handle that abuse for long.

 

The reason everyone tells you to save up longer is because once you get into the sport, you don't want your equipment to be the limiting factor. The differences between mass produced 1911's and boutique produced 2011's are small when listed one at a time but rather significant when added up. A Harley will get you there nicely and you can make them stupid fast, but you'll always wonder how much faster you'd be with a real crotch rocket.

 

Cruise the classifieds here and pick up a nice 2011, you'll be glad you waited.

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2 minutes ago, Absocold said:

Para and RIA do not make 2011's, they make high capacity 1911's. Once you get them running there's nothing wrong with them for minor, they work just fine. Not recommended for major, they're not really designed to handle that abuse for long.

 

The reason everyone tells you to save up longer is because once you get into the sport, you don't want your equipment to be the limiting factor. The differences between mass produced 1911's and boutique produced 2011's are small when listed one at a time but rather significant when added up. A Harley will get you there nicely and you can make them stupid fast, but you'll always wonder how much faster you'd be with a real crotch rocket.

 

Cruise the classifieds here and pick up a nice 2011, you'll be glad you waited.

Not recommended for major? There are Springfield and Para frames with 100K plus rounds of new major and old major 175 pf still going strong in Open and Limited. I don't know where you got that info, maybe someone trying to sell an sti. I don't see why the Armscor guns won't go that far too. The only draw back to those guns are the size of the grip area, just a bit larger than a sti/SVI. Caspian has a HC frame that is a better choice over all of them.

Rich

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Not recommended for major? There are Springfield and Para frames with 100K plus rounds of new major and old major 175 pf still going strong in Open and Limited. I don't know where you got that info, maybe someone trying to sell an sti. I don't see why the Armscor guns won't go that far too. The only draw back to those guns are the size of the grip area, just a bit larger than a sti/SVI. Caspian has a HC frame that is a better choice over all of them.

Rich


I have XL hands, so a para frame might actually be better.

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56 minutes ago, Absocold said:

 Not recommended for major, they're not really designed to handle that abuse for long.

 

 

Not from hearsay, only personal experience, but this is completely wrong.  Whether or not a Para or RI is for you, is a question only you can answer, but the guns themselves are fine and will shoot many 10s of 1000s of rounds of major.  I like them and think they are a steal myself, though they are probably not as customizable in the grip area as the STI type guns.

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Once again... Para's track record of being fine for major is now null and void. Since being bought by Freedom Group and manufacturing facilities moved, the new Para may as well be a different gun. Freedom Group has a poor track record of taking a fine product and turning it into crap. Because of this, I am no longer recommending them for major until a new track record is established.

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I've been shooting Para's for at least 20 yrs. both P-14 and P-16. Started with the P-14. I've run way in excess of 74K rds. including 180 PF for SOF matches. Still runs like a swiss watch. Don't shy away from Para, I've never had a problem. Good luck.

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I've been shooting a RI Pro Match 40 for three years now, @20k rds. I believe I had one of the first, it was made on Monday by a person with a Friday hang over and ten thumbs. With that said, the more recent guns look much better. I paid 625 and they are now right at 900, hopefully the larger price equates to better quality. I have had a new front site, new trigger, and a new barrel installed, it's a different gun now. so my original investment and an additional 700 for parts and installation, below 1500, I think with a little effort looking for a used gun(STI or the like) may well be worth it. I am using STI mags, but everyone using MBX swears by them. There is a large post for RI on this site, 33 pages, and a lot of info on them, both 9 and 40, worth a read. You also might look at the SPS, I've held one, not shot, but it looks really nice, and the price is better than STI and others. There is also a post on the SPS 9 open gun by Patrick Kelly. Oh, since I put the barrel in it, it shoots straight, I was going crazy thinking my loads were bad, no more tumbling, I think the bullet was bouncing down the barrel. Good luck with your hunt.

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Just like everything else in life, you get what you pay for. If high quality 2011's could be produced for less then they would all be cheaper than they are now. If you buy a cheap gun and have to put a barrel, trigger, sights and whatever else in it to make it "right", is it really saving you money?

Edited by CHA-LEE
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Even the expensive 1911/2011s need some work to make sure they run reliably.  I have the RIA doublestack in .45acp.  Other than upgrading the front sight to a Dawson and putting in a 3.5lb trigger kit, mine is stock and runs great.  I'm looking into another RIA for shooting Steel Open division.

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Been shooting a pro match RIA .40 for a year now.  Over 12k thru it. It is a workhorse with Greg Côte mags, Arredondo springs and Dawson base pads (20 rd mags). Gun is tight and shoots great. Complete different feel than plastic frame 2011.  Plastic frame guns feel more narrow and seem to reload a little smoother.  RIA is alot heavier, a little slower on draws and transitions but shoots much softer.  Trigger job Taylor Freelance magwell and Dawson front sight and lots of anmo is all you need.  Rear sight blade broke off and replaced it with a Kensight LPA cut rear.  

First you need reliability and accuracy.  My RIA is as reliable and accurate as anything out there.  

Finally, YOU have to shoot it.  Nobody else does.  You have to be happy with your decision and like your gun to enjoy it.  

I am having a limited gun built that is complete opposite of my RIA.  I am going with CK frame, plastic grip and sight tracker Schumann barrel.

I hope it shoots as good as my RIA.  Honestly, I am in no rush for my guy to finish it.  After all, it is the Indian, not the arrow.  

 

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I really like my RIA pro match .40. I contoured the dust cover so I could run a STI edge holster and had a new sear and trigger installed, but that was about it. Runs 110% with MBX mags. That being said... My gunsmith told me he damn near dropped his chamber reamer through the barrel when he was checking it out, and it tumbles jacketed rounds at 10 yards or beyond. I thought it was the ammo at first, but it runs perfect through other .40's. I'm not putting a barrel in it, so I will just run coated lead through it from now on. Super heavy, shoots soft, and it was cheap.

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Silly question: will the RIA's take a 6" slide if one were to buy one and want to upgrade it?  Or would it be better to get the 6" 10mm they make and get a .40 barrel for it?

Edited by yellowfin
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I recently picked up a Tac A2 in 40, the park finish with rail.  I already have P16-40 mags so no mag issues.  Other than changing the FO color and grinding the sharp edges off the safety, no alterations. It runs really well. It weighs a lot. Shooting 40 minor thru it is silly soft.  I think I paid $530 retail.

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I pickup a para pro custom in 9mm. Replaced the trigger and I did replace the mag release for one from canyon creek and use sti mags. Gun runs great had no problems and it has become one of the funnest guns for me to shoot. To bad Para/Remington stop building them.

Brad

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I have and have had Para's in .45 and .40.  Only problem was taken care of by adjusting the mag feed lips.  Fed many 200 gr. lead swc thru the .45 without a hitch as long as the OAL and crimp was correct.  My .40 liked long loads and fed them 100% after I asked the previous owner what it preferred.  Don't shy away from the Para with Para mags.  Just make sure the lips are adjusted properly.  That info can be found elsewhere in this forum or someone can chime in.

 

FWIW

 

Richard

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

I have a half dozen Paras and three 2011's.

I love my Paras.  They are the best value.

Absolutley nothing wrong with them.  You'll want to yank out the series 80 crap and install a series 80 shim.

Buy the MBX magazines and they will be flawless.  You can spend the extra several thousand that you save on something else that will actually make you shoot better, like more ammo!

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