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Savageman25

Completely new progressive machine

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    I am currently in the R and D phase of developing a new type of progressive press for the home reloader. This is something that I have wrestled with attempting for some time now. I have finally convinced myself that if I don't try to make these presses (a 5/6 stage and a 7/8 stage) that I have slowly designed over time, that I will look back when I'm older and be disappointed that I didn't take the initiative to at least try. 

    Now I know many of you might be perfectly fine with your current press/presses whatever flavor they may be but I ask you to at least think back at one time where you said in your head; you know what, I wish this press had/did or didn't do ________________. To tell you the truth I am fairly happy with my progressive press, but I can't help but feel that I can vastly improve on the design (I say that with no disrespect to the engineers of these presses, I'm sure they are brilliant people). If you look at progressive presses across different manufacturers I feel they have common shortcomings that we just simply have put up with. Things that my press will completely remove. So without telling you everything about my press I will highlight some things that I feel I have worked out and make them revolutionary.

 

The press/presses main highlights (I'm thinking of either a 5/6 stage and a 7/8 stage)

1. No caliber specific shellplate (one baseplate will do every caliber which saves time switching and not to mention money)

2. Simply slide dies in and out (I'm sure many of you can think of a single stage that does this phenomenally)

3. No more picking up primers with pickup tubes or using a machine, simply put them in the supplied flip tray of the press and attach it directly

4. A much improved case feed design

5. Adaptable for right hand or left hand operation

 

Couple key points kept in mind with design

1. Keep it simple (nothing high tech or with tons of moving parts)

2. Make it run perfect directly out of the box (I'm tired of presses that must be fiddled with to work correctly)

3. If something were to fail, it's able to be fixed by owner easily

4. Use quality U.S. Parts

5. Caliber changes easily done within 5 minutes 

 

Without going into tons more detail, I would like to say that there is many more design features that would make it different and revolutionary but they are just icing on the cake compared to the things already mentioned. I have tried and tried to come up with a better powder delivery than what's currently being usedon progressives but for the life of me cannot do it after many hours of designing and redesigning.

I open this up to you guys to give me anything else that would be a huge benefit to the press. 

 

I would like to also say this isn't a thread to tell me how dumb of an idea or how there's no way this will work against the competition or I'm biting off more than I can chew. My credentials are not much but I have went through the Navy's Nuclear technology school (some people say engineering but it's not, even though it is very hard), I have a degree in AutoCAD, Soon to have a degree in aviation (Helicopter CFI currently working on Fixed Wing ratings) and plan to get a Bachelors in Business. Worked as a plumber for 8 years and have a strong mechanical aptitude. Not that any of that matters accept to maybe try to explain I'm not an idiot and that I'm dedicated to something when I put myself into it. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Savageman25

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Lifetime no BS warranty.

Best of luck on this tough journey!

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Some random things that spring to mind is an ability to easily clear a station in the event of a problem of some sort.  (Sort of normal, but your mention of no shell plate makes me wonder a bit if this would be in there as well.)

An integral light to permit easily seeing the powder charge would also be useful.

How would a primer jam be cleared?

Lube points?

Easy powder draining from the powder reservoir.

 

Guy

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I'd like a priming system like the 1050 where the depth is set. However, not all cases have identical size primer pockets, so if you have the machine set to seat .003 below flush and the case / primer combo can't handle that, it's managed via shell plate flex or the case rim gives. Instead, use a spring (heavy duty / 50K cycle life) to give first, so we can minimize adjustment to seating depth.

Beyond that need one more stage than a 1050 to run a powder check before the bullet feeder.

Must be easy to automate.

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6 minutes ago, Sarge said:

Lifetime no BS warranty.

Best of luck on this tough journey!

Absolutely agree. On both accounts

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5 minutes ago, Guy Neill said:

Some random things that spring to mind is an ability to easily clear a station in the event of a problem of some sort.  (Sort of normal, but your mention of no shell plate makes me wonder a bit if this would be in there as well.)

An integral light to permit easily seeing the powder charge would also be useful.

How would a primer jam be cleared?

Lube points?

Easy powder draining from the powder reservoir.

 

Guy

Yes they would be very easily removed and reinserted. One hand use. No fiddling or being perfectly placed either.

 

I had thought of an integral light as well and feel it would be a great addition. 

 

The whole primer assembly would be able to be removed within a few seconds by simply sliding it out, thus lending itself to be cleared very easily.

It most certianly has lube points.

Powder draining, I feel as if this would be simple by using the rotary devices already used by rcbs and hornady, which I tend to like but I feel still isn't consistent enough for the precision I want from a powder measure.

 

 

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This going to be a standard rotating progressive?

ive always thought a rcbs green machine style press with some improvement could work well.

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24 minutes ago, peterthefish said:

I'd like a priming system like the 1050 where the depth is set. However, not all cases have identical size primer pockets, so if you have the machine set to seat .003 below flush and the case / primer combo can't handle that, it's managed via shell plate flex or the case rim gives. Instead, use a spring (heavy duty / 50K cycle life) to give first, so we can minimize adjustment to seating depth.

Beyond that need one more stage than a 1050 to run a powder check before the bullet feeder.

Must be easy to automate.

Priming depth would be set, I feel this is a must. Making sure that all brass can accept the seating depth is something that I feel I could achieve with this press. The dies will come down to the cases, the shellplate will rotate. Half on each stroke up and down. This allows a device to be used on the press to allow for the brass primer pockets to be prepped before being primed.

Agree that one more stage would be very helpful.

 

Automation is very doable but I don't think I would ever attempt to do that part.

Edited by Savageman25

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First, make a cheaper roll sizer that can easily be powered and the ability to have an automatic case feeder or the Lee case feeder attached. Shouldn't be too difficult to make one that's less than half the cost of the Case Pro ($825 and a three month wait? Dang!). You'll be a hero for this alone and have the income to work on the next project.

Now you can make a press that eliminates the sizing station. This gives many benefits that I won't bother to list since most are obvious.

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13 minutes ago, Garmil said:

This going to be a standard rotating progressive?

ive always thought a rcbs green machine style press with some improvement could work well.

Simply put yes. I had thought of an inline machine at one point but I found that the size of it would be a huge detriment.

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16 minutes ago, Absocold said:

First, make a cheaper roll sizer that can easily be powered and the ability to have an automatic case feeder or the Lee case feeder attached. Shouldn't be too difficult to make one that's less than half the cost of the Case Pro ($825 and a three month wait? Dang!). You'll be a hero for this alone and have the income to work on the next project.

Now you can make a press that eliminates the sizing station. This gives many benefits that I won't bother to list since most are obvious.

You make some good points but roll sizers don't keep me up at night, lol. Thinking about this press design has cost me much sleep.

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18 hours ago, Absocold said:

First, make a cheaper roll sizer that can easily be powered and the ability to have an automatic case feeder or the Lee case feeder attached. Shouldn't be too difficult to make one that's less than half the cost of the Case Pro ($825 and a three month wait? Dang!). You'll be a hero for this alone and have the income to work on the next project.

Now you can make a press that eliminates the sizing station. This gives many benefits that I won't bother to list since most are obvious.

Absolutely 

We need this product 

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Your machine sounds interesting. Sort of like an improved Camdex 

On board primer pocket swaging would be very useful for military calibers

On board lighting 

Electric power automatic operation 

$1000 price point?

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4 hours ago, practical_man said:

Your machine sounds interesting. Sort of like an improved Camdex 

On board primer pocket swaging would be very useful for military calibers

On board lighting 

Electric power automatic operation 

$1000 price point?

Swaging is in the mix for sure. 

Price point is hard to guess at this point in the game, but I would definitely want to keep it competitive. The truth is that it's looking more and more like it's going to be a 6 stage and an 8 stage. Having the ability to have a powder check die in the press is a must, in doing that I feel the need for another stage than the typical presses out now.

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Sounds like some Forester CO-AX and Lee influences in some of your ideas.

 

If I were doing a clean sheet design it would have, powder check, swage, positive depth priming, bullet/case feed, a device that culled "ringers" or incorrect diameter primer pockets and have enough room and stations to be able to accommodate a trimmer along with the rest of the needed dies.

If you can get to that point, I would love to be a beta tester.

Edited by jmorris

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Im with what jmorris said.

something to detect cracked cases/ berdan is also.. nice ;) 

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11 hours ago, jmorris said:

 

Sounds like some Forester CO-AX and Lee influences in some of your ideas.

 

If I were doing a clean sheet design it would have, powder check, swage, positive depth priming, bullet/case feed, a device that culled "ringers" or incorrect diameter primer pockets and have enough room and stations to be able to accommodate a trimmer along with the rest of the needed dies.

If you can get to that point, I would love to be a beta tester.

Taken into consideration. A trimmer space would have to be on the 8 stage. The culled "ringers" or incorrect primer diameter might be taken care of with the way I'm thinking of making sure the positive priming depth and swaging is ensured in all cases but might be a difficult task.

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5 hours ago, ano said:

Im with what jmorris said.

something to detect cracked cases/ berdan is also.. nice ;) 

Those are two very tall orders for a progressive as well. 

I like that you guys are giving me more things to think about to incorporate. Maybe some things wouldn't come standard with the press but could be additional options.

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13 hours ago, Savageman25 said:

The culled "ringers" or incorrect primer diameter might be taken care of with the way I'm thinking of making sure the positive priming depth and swaging is ensured in all cases but might be a difficult task.

It's not that difficult but would take up an extra station. As you are starting from nothing, that's pretty easy to add at this point.

This is one I made.

 

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16 minutes ago, jmorris said:

It's not that difficult but would take up an extra station. As you are starting from nothing, that's pretty easy to add at this point.

This is one I made.

 

Brilliant! :cheers:

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As someone who works in commercial ammunition loading, I too loose sleep over loading machines.  Just some thoughts:

1.What you have in your head has great potential, but I can tell you that it will be VERY hard to keep it in the 1050 price point range. 

2. A self feeding priming system CAN work, but there is a reason to restrict the number of primers and the complexity of the feed system on a press.  Setting off primers DOES happen, and the more that are in the system or tray, the bigger the potential boom.

3. There are many ways to feed cases.  I work with multiple examples every day.  They all have their merits and detractors. As far as the top end of the feeding system collators and vibratory bowls both work, but a well designed collator is cheaper and sometimes more effective. (On the cheap/non commercial side its hard to beat Dillons design).

4. "Make it run perfectly out of the box".  When it comes to reloading machines, I'd hate to be the company promising that. 

5. I don't know that I've seen many cases that were clean (and not defects) that would not accept a standard primer.  Seating via a spring is going to give varying primer depths.  Primer pockets do vary in cleanliness, diameter,  etc... If the force is not direct and repeatable, seating depth will vary.  Rim thickness should be the only variable you cannot control as far as seating. 

I'll follow along though, this sounds like it could be a fun project!

Edited by Ssanders224

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10 hours ago, jmorris said:

It's not that difficult but would take up an extra station. As you are starting from nothing, that's pretty easy to add at this point.

This is one I made.

 

I too give you props for that. Pretty ingenious.

Edited by Savageman25

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7 hours ago, Ssanders224 said:

As someone who works in commercial ammunition loading, I too loose sleep over loading machines.  Just some thoughts:

1.What you have in your head has great potential, but I can tell you that it will be VERY hard to keep it in the 1050 price point range. 

2. A self feeding priming system CAN work, but there is a reason to restrict the number of primers and the complexity of the feed system on a press.  Setting off primers DOES happen, and the more that are in the system or tray, the bigger the potential boom.

3. There are many ways to feed cases.  I work with multiple examples every day.  They all have their merits and detractors. As far as the top end of the feeding system collators and vibratory bowls both work, but a well designed collator is cheaper and sometimes more effective. (On the cheap/non commercial side its hard to beat Dillons design).

4. "Make it run perfectly out of the box".  When it comes to reloading machines, I'd hate to be the company promising that. 

5. I don't know that I've seen many cases that were clean (and not defects) that would not accept a standard primer.  Seating via a spring is going to give varying primer depths.  Primer pockets do vary in cleanliness, diameter,  etc... If the force is not direct and repeatable, seating depth will vary.  Rim thickness should be the only variable you cannot control as far as seating. 

I'll follow along though, this sounds like it could be a fun project!

1. I honestly am not to the point of worrying about price point as of right now, My personal goal is just to create the darn thing and see where it goes from there. But as I do believe I've settled that these presses will be 6 and 8 stages, I feel they aren't necessarily going to be head to head with any press, even though I'm sure many people will see it that way.

2.I actually never thought of people loading up more than 100 primers at a time. The flip tray that would be apart of the system would be typical sizes you see now. I would put a warning as to not put more than 100 at a time, but I'm sure that people will say hey lets load 200-300+ into the tray, they can fit. I also feel the design of it is very simple as well. I try to keep everything simple as possible. Less cause for concern that way.

3. Don't have much to say here accept the way the case will be delivered to the shellplate will be different in many ways. But honestly very simple. The hopper will function very much like a Dillon or Hornady.

4. I'm not so sure it's promise as it is a goal. But imagine if it is achieved.

5. The way I plan on setting positive seating depth is very similar to how a very good single stage achieves it now. Not spring pressure. It would be a solid stop thus force shouldn't matter. What if the difference in primer depth and cleanliness and Swaging where all accomplished with the same tool before getting to the priming station? I think I've got a pretty good idea to do it but won't know for a while until it could be tested.

Edited by Savageman25

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So I have just had a very brief conversation with an owner of a reloading company that I'm sure all of you have heard of (it's one of the big ones in the game). He stopped me before we could get into any details but didn't want to continue without a certain other person on the line. So I have a phone call scheduled for Monday at noon. Who knows if anything will come to fruition but at least they are giving me an ear. I'm honored that they are taking the time and have made me really feel that they care to listen to their customers.

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Very interesting!

Not having enough stations sucks. However, having more stations than needed is really no big deal. The loaded cartridge just passes on by.

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