Moving from 650 to 1050

[AbitNutz]

I guess that title is misleading. I'm going to add a 1050. I have my 650 all up and snazzy and now I want a 1050.

I'm going to go with a GSI bullet feeder because I'm very familiar with it and that's what I have on my 650 and I have it running really well.

What are the other add-ons that I might consider? Please don't point out an Auto Drive...not ready for that...quite yet.

I'm familiar with some of the the Dillon offerings such as the low powder sensor and powder check but there are some other items from 3rd parties that I'm not familiar with.

1) Fast & Friendly Brass? They offer large & small swage rod backer and L/S primer swage rods as well as their own shell plates and pawl.

2) EGW Primer hold down die?

3) Are there any bearing kits available or advisable for the shell plate, like the 650"s?

4) I've always liked the Double Alpha through powder expander dies as used on the MBF. 

With the exception of a bullet feeder, the 1050 seems to be extremely complete and I'm not sure how nice or necessary the other mods are worth...

Are there other offerings that I should consider? Please guide me as to what ills these additional items make cure, durability? Functionality? 

 

 

 

 

 

[Phlier]

Check out this thread for some ideas. There's a few other threads around here with other great ideas, too.

[RayBar]

The first add on is to ditch the ratchet.

[lefty o]

i dont mind the ratchet, but can see how it annoys people that hear good. for me, i didnt care for the bearing kit, but do like the plastic checkball, and i absolutely advocate a mirror on the casefeeder. i recommend supporting the casefeeder better. it just kind of flops around as it comes, so i put an 1/8" piece of stock under the bar for it, and fabbed some braces , one runs at an angle down to my bench, and another straight back to the wall. just expect to do some tinkering to get it running well. 

[AbitNutz]

For some weird reason I had thought that the 1050 was just a souped up 650. Clearly I couldn't have been more wrong. The design, as you all know,  could hardly be more different. Not only does the 1050 use more of a rotary table design but it's the dies that move up and down on the 1050 while the shell case remains stationary...this really looks like a better idea.

The GSI bullet feeder comes with it's own extremely substantial post on which you hang the collator on. The 650's case feeder is very well supported. Is there no such counterpart for the 1050's case feeder? Am I going to have to come up with my own design? I wonder if I could use a 2nd GSI post? Those posts really are quite substantial. 

Again, I wrongly thought that the 1050 used a priming system like the 650. It seems that the 1050's is really more like the 550's shuttle system. This seems to me to be a real drawback as I also have a 550B and I really prefer the 650's. Is that the general consensus? Or is the 1050's shuttle priming system pretty much worked out and not an issue?

The 1050 doesn't seem to have near the amount of little widget upgrades like the 650 does. It seems like much more of a commercial grade piece of equipment than the 650. 

 

 

[Phlier]

1 hour ago, AbitNutz said:

Or is the 1050's shuttle priming system pretty much worked out and not an issue?

It's fantastic. The primer is seated on the down stroke. *Everything* is completed on the down stroke on the 1050. The primer seating depth is very easily adjusted, too. One very important tip: DO NOT thread the Magazine Shield Cap (part number 13957. See the 1050 diagram) on tight! If you do, you will put too much pressure on the blue plastic part on the end of the magazine tube, and you'll have primer feeding problems like crazy. The manual warns you about this, and it's very important. That's pretty much the only real gotcha on the primer system. There are a few other primer adjustment things to mess with on the 1050, but that's the only real gotcha. All the other primer related stuff is cake.

The 1050 (or as I call it, the ten fiddly) is.... fiddly. It takes some time to get to know and get set up/tuned correctly. But once you do, it runs like a dream.

Another very important difference between the 650 and 1050 is how case necks are handled. On the 650, case necks are sized (and belled, if needed) on a powder through expander die at the powder drop station. On the 1050, case necks are expanded at the primer pocket swaging station. If belling is needed, it's done at the powder station, but the powder station *only* bells; it doesn't do any case neck expanding.

1 hour ago, AbitNutz said:

It seems like much more of a commercial grade piece of equipment than the 650. 

The 1050 is very much a commercial grade piece of equipment. So much so, that Dillon doesn't offer it's unlimited Lifetime warranty on the 1050 like it does on the other presses.

And one other thing that comes to mind... It only ships with either a small primer system *or* a large primer system. It doesn't come with both, so plan on spending the cash on another primer system.

Edited October 15, 2016 by Phlier

[AbitNutz]

5 hours ago, Phlier said:

And one other thing that comes to mind... It only ships with either a small primer system *or* a large primer system. It doesn't come with both, so plan on spending the cash on another primer system.

Man, that's `good to know, I didn't realize that. It also makes sense why the ten-fiddy comes with so many die stations. It didn't make sense to me before, coming from the 650 world as I do.

 

If you all could change something about the 1050, what would it be? 

[peterthefish]

If you all could change something about the 1050, what would it be?

One more die station for a powder check when using my MBF.

[Phlier]

6 hours ago, AbitNutz said:

If you all could change something about the 1050, what would it be? 

A permanent 50% price drop on caliber conversion kits and tool heads.

[AbitNutz]

12 hours ago, Phlier said:

 

 

5 hours ago, peterthefish said:

 

One more die station for a powder check when using my MBF.

 

That's why I went with the GSI on my 650 and will so again with the 1050. Their toolhead is extremely well made. In fact, it it more nicely crafted than the OEM Dillon toolhead,

[AbitNutz]

Changing calibers on my 650 is fairly inexpensive moneywise but a really expensive timewise. Getting everything right and tuned after a caliber change is a major chore. So much so, that I've decided not to do it anymore. Once I decide on a caliber, that's where it stays unless I've sold the gun that shoots it...I swear, it's a hair puling experience , especially with a bullet feeder. 

[twodownzero]

40 minutes ago, AbitNutz said:

Changing calibers on my 650 is fairly inexpensive moneywise but a really expensive timewise. Getting everything right and tuned after a caliber change is a major chore. So much so, that I've decided not to do it anymore. Once I decide on a caliber, that's where it stays unless I've sold the gun that shoots it...I swear, it's a hair puling experience , especially with a bullet feeder. 

I don't know that I need a 650 with the amount of shooting that I do, but I have found that setting it up, loading a few thousand rounds, and then switching calibers when needed goes a long way.  If money was unlimited I'd have a 1050 or maybe another 650, but since it isn't, it's doing just fine for me.

[Phlier]

1 hour ago, AbitNutz said:

Changing calibers on my 650 is fairly inexpensive moneywise but a really expensive timewise. Getting everything right and tuned after a caliber change is a major chore. So much so, that I've decided not to do it anymore. Once I decide on a caliber, that's where it stays unless I've sold the gun that shoots it...I swear, it's a hair puling experience , especially with a bullet feeder. 

Yeah, caliber change overs are a bit of a pain. On the 1050 (as on all the other presses), having additional tool heads that stay setup for individual calibers makes it easier, but 1050 tool heads are soooooooooo expensive, it's just not cost effective to do so.

I have three total 1050 tool heads. Two of them stay permanently set for pre-processing and then loading .223. The other head I've been using exclusively for 9mm, but that is going to change. I'm putting Hornady locking rings on my 9mm dies, so I can take them out of the tool head, then drop them back in and have them immediately setup without having to adjust them again. I'll be doing this with other dies, too, so the one tool head will be used to rapidly change over to other dies that have Hornady die lock rings on them.

Once you get the hang of it, changing calibers on the 1050 is about a ten minute task if you have dedicated tool heads, and that's if you take a five minute coffee break in the middle. The 1050 is really geared for having a tool head for each caliber, as you do have to take the tool head off every time (well, most every time) you switch calibers, as it needs to come off to change out the shell plate.

Now there's a niche that's just begging to be filled...If some company could come along and sell 1050 after market tool heads at an affordable price, I'd tell them to shut up and take my money. Dillon1050 tool heads are $200 bucks a pop. Seriously.

Edited October 15, 2016 by Phlier

[lefty o]

4 hours ago, Phlier said:

A permanent 50% price drop on caliber conversion kits and tool heads.

amen to that. the 1050 toolheads are priced way too high.

[mikeinctown]

Yeah the 650 tool head is like $35. Not sure what could make the 1050 so much more expensive other than it is a more expensive press to start.

[TDA]

It's quite a bit more complex.

 

[AbitNutz]

The 650 head doesn't actually do anything besides hold the dies...the 1050 looks like it has functionality all its own. If it's a GSI bullet feeder toolhead, it had a rotating bullet carousel in it...it costs $365.00 for the 1050 and $215.00 for the 650. When you see one side by side with an OEM toolhead, you know why it costs what it does...but I think it's worth it.

[Phlier]

I'm familiar with how complex they are; I have three of them. Sure, they're more complex than the other tool heads, but $200 each? You could buy 1.9 Lee Classic Turret presses for the cost of 1 1050 tool head!

More complex? yup.

So much so to justify 200 bucks each? IMO, nope.

[TDA]

Funny how nobody ever bitches about Dillon when it comes to getting free warranty parts or free refurbs on the other presses.

They only bitch when the press has an issue, or about a customer service reps, or the cost of parts. 

[lefty o]

not alot of warranty on the 1050 though.

[mikeinctown]

12 hours ago, TDA said:

Funny how nobody ever bitches about Dillon when it comes to getting free warranty parts or free refurbs on the other presses.

They only bitch when the press has an issue, or about a customer service reps, or the cost of parts. 

As mentioned the 1050 doesn't have that warranty like the other presses do. IMHO the 650 is a great deal for what you get, including the warranty.

[AbitNutz]

1 minute ago, mikeinctown said:

As mentioned the 1050 doesn't have that warranty like the other presses do. IMHO the 650 is a great deal for what you get, including the warranty.

I certainly agree with that. When I look at the FAQ pages about which to machine choose, between the 1050 and 650, I fall more into the 1050 catagory. I shoot a lot but only of one caliber. I also just like the way the 1050 works, the dies moving up and down and the shell remaining stationary. However, the real cost is rather daunting once you add in the bullet feeder and all the rest of the "nice to have accessories" my spreadsheet bounced off $3,500.00...now those are not numbers to sneeze at!

[Phlier]

17 hours ago, TDA said:

Funny how nobody ever bitches about Dillon when it comes to getting free warranty parts or free refurbs on the other presses.

They only bitch when the press has an issue, or about a customer service reps, or the cost of parts. 

Yup, and i'll continue to bitch about the cost of parts for my non lifetime warranty 1050. I'm all about supporting Dillon; I love their presses, their company, and with what little experience I've had with them so far, their people.

But when it comes to price gouging on parts that do *not* come with a Lifetime warranty, yup, I'm gonna "bitch". I would have no problem forking over big money for pieces that come with a lifetime warranty. Maybe they forgot that they weren't giving a lifetime warranty on 1050 tool heads when they decided on a price for them.

4 hours ago, AbitNutz said:

I certainly agree with that. When I look at the FAQ pages about which to machine choose, between the 1050 and 650, I fall more into the 1050 catagory. I shoot a lot but only of one caliber. I also just like the way the 1050 works, the dies moving up and down and the shell remaining stationary. However, the real cost is rather daunting once you add in the bullet feeder and all the rest of the "nice to have accessories" my spreadsheet bounced off $3,500.00...now those are not numbers to sneeze at!

My budget was $3.5k for my new reloading setup, as mandated by the wife. I had two options: a 1050 setup for 9mm with a Mr. Bulletfeeder, or a 1050 setup for both 9mm and .223 without the MBF. I went with the two calibers and no MBF.

So yes, after spending $3,440.00 (all to Dillon), I am a bit miffed at still having to shell out rather high dollar figures for something as mundane as a tool head (complex as it may be ).

Edited October 17, 2016 by Phlier

[peterthefish]

I certainly agree with that. When I look at the FAQ pages about which to machine choose, between the 1050 and 650, I fall more into the 1050 catagory. I shoot a lot but only of one caliber. I also just like the way the 1050 works, the dies moving up and down and the shell remaining stationary. However, the real cost is rather daunting once you add in the bullet feeder and all the rest of the "nice to have accessories" my spreadsheet bounced off $3,500.00...now those are not numbers to sneeze at!

A 1050 and MBF should cost you $2,200 or so. All I added is was the wrench kit, spare parts kit, and 8 primer tubes which as another $150 or so. Even adding a strong mount (not really needed) and a light shouldn't add more than another $100...

[AbitNutz]

True, it's not a fortune but you have to shoot an awful lot to make it pay. I truly believe the GSI bullet feeder is a better solution for folks like me that don't switch cartridges much. It only takes up one station and the toolhead is actually much more nicely made than the Dillon OEM. 

A 1050 runs $1750 and the GSI another $700. I'm not sure what other do-dads you can add to a 1050. The 650 has a myriad of roller bearings and other widgets people have invented. By the time it's outfitted and shipped I'm looking at about $2500.00 more or less. Say I decided I was going to shoot 9mm. Assuming you get the brass for free, which is very likely, you could probably get the cost down to $2.50 for a box of 50. The cost to break even is close to, what? 17,000 rounds? That's the cost of the machine plus your consumables. That would be about 325 rounds a week for a year. That is certainly a do-able figure many folks, some folks, maybe not so much. Me? I'm on the edge. 

The magic reloading machine would not be one that pumps out a 1000 rounds an hour. It would be one that somehow, someway would let you switch between any caliber, rifle or pistol, in minutes and not cost a fortune doing it. 

Like most people here, I have all kinds of guns. Wouldn't it be great to shoot a 1000 rounds of 9mm and then get the urge to warm up your 450 Nitro Express and be able to spit out 25 rounds in just a few minutes? It's a dream....