IGOTGLOCKED Posted October 31, 2016 Author Share Posted October 31, 2016 3 hours ago, mikeinctown said: Not sure what press you are using, but I set my expander to the specs Dillon listed in their 650 manual and I get no shaving with coated lead. There is just enough bell to not allow the bullet to fall over when you set it on there. I can basically only feel the bell but it is really had to see the bell. Don't make it harder than it needs to be, and you will be fine. 650XL - have had no shaving issues and the chink on the bottom was answered above - thx! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashDodson Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 When setting the oal start long and back off until the round will drop in (plunk) and remove just as easily. You dont want the round sticking on the lands because you could run into an issue with the gun not going into battery. If it plunks and you can pull it out with little force then you should be gtg on OAL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGOTGLOCKED Posted October 31, 2016 Author Share Posted October 31, 2016 2 minutes ago, CrashDodson said: When setting the oal start long and back off until the round will drop in (plunk) and remove just as easily. You dont want the round sticking on the lands because you could run into an issue with the gun not going into battery. If it plunks and you can pull it out with little force then you should be gtg on OAL. Ok, but couldn't a casing not crimped enough also cause it to not plunk in? This is what is confusing me, how to know which is doing what... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 (edited) In general, you have plunk vs spin right, Glocked. Yes. Edited October 31, 2016 by MemphisMechanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashDodson Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 (edited) usually if its not enough crimp it wont go in very far at all. Are you using a case gauge first? Use the case gauge to judge your crimp. If it passes the gauge then move on to barrel testing. If you want to know where its failing paint the top of the case and the the bullet with a marker before dropping it in. pull it out and the marks will be rubbed off where its contacting the barrel. Edited October 31, 2016 by CrashDodson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDescribe Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 10 minutes ago, IGOTGLOCKED said: Won't plunk = crimp Won't spin = coal Or? If you have under-crimped, the case might halt insertion into the chamber earlier than it would with proper crimp. When this happens, the case walls end up wedged a little against the chamber walls, and it simply won't spin freely. This can also trick you into a max OAL far different than your real one, so watch out for it. If you have ANY question about getting an accurate maximum OAL, there is a fool-proof method. This is what I use all the time now, just to be sure. Load a dummy round (no powder, no primer) a little longer than you know it will take, then crimp it to .378. Then keep seating the bullet a little deeper, a couple thousandths at a time, a little deeper, a little deeper, a little deeper, plunk testing in your barrel each time to check to see if it plunks and spins freely, and when you get to where it spins freely, that is your true max OAL without rifling engagement, and you would be well advised, to load .010 - .015 shorter than that as your practical max OAL so that the natural variation in your loading doesn't land you back into the rifling lands with some small number of your loaded ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeinctown Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 32 minutes ago, IGOTGLOCKED said: Ok, but couldn't a casing not crimped enough also cause it to not plunk in? This is what is confusing me, how to know which is doing what... I always keep a round of factory ammo sitting in a tray along with various reload samples to check this. I can measure COL and case diameter so that I know that the measurements I am finding in the books and on line is accurate, to get a baseline of how snug a round is in the barrel if factory, and to compare my recently loaded dimensions. Also, in the handbook for your 650, it not only shows the belling procedure, but also he method in which to use to determine when you have taken the bell out. (crimp) You add the bullet diameter to case wall thickness x2 and that should be your diameter of the finished cartridge when measured at the lip of the brass. You don't want it pushed in or still belled. I currently only load for my 1911, and don't even own a case gauge. I test by sliding in factory ammo to see how loose or tight things can be. From there I slowly take out the bell using the barrel and my calipers using the method outlined in the manual. Once I found the sweet spot I simply removed the bullet to make sure I wasn't biting into the coating. My method for testing the COL involved measuring the factory round then going slightly longer. I made up 4 or 5 dummy rounds minus primer and powder. Put the dummy rounds into the magazine and tested to see how well each round chambered. If the round didn't chamber easily from the magazine then I would put each round on the press and adjust about .005 shorter and would keep doing this as necessary. If everything seemed to feed and eject properly then I would stop shortening the cartridge and would then make some live rounds to test at the range. Using this method I haven't had an issue with any rounds in test loads not feeding properly, whether they are blue bullets, zero bullets, and other local hytek coated bullets. As I am gearing up to load 9mm now, I plan on using this method for my CZ and other 9mm guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGOTGLOCKED Posted October 31, 2016 Author Share Posted October 31, 2016 4 hours ago, CrashDodson said: When setting the oal start long and back off until the round will drop in (plunk) and remove just as easily. You dont want the round sticking on the lands because you could run into an issue with the gun not going into battery. If it plunks and you can pull it out with little force then you should be gtg on OAL. Makes sense, thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGOTGLOCKED Posted October 31, 2016 Author Share Posted October 31, 2016 4 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said: In general, you have plunk vs spin right, Glocked. Yes. Thanks for the confirmation Memphis! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGOTGLOCKED Posted October 31, 2016 Author Share Posted October 31, 2016 4 hours ago, CrashDodson said: usually if its not enough crimp it wont go in very far at all. Are you using a case gauge first? Use the case gauge to judge your crimp. If it passes the gauge then move on to barrel testing. If you want to know where its failing paint the top of the case and the the bullet with a marker before dropping it in. pull it out and the marks will be rubbed off where its contacting the barrel. I do use a case gauge, and will try the marker if needed. I understand 1.169 is max for a 9 mag. I will start there with a dummy round then I will be able to shorten the same round without have to make a bunch of test rounds as if I began short then going longer Thx! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArrDave Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 19 hours ago, IGOTGLOCKED said: I do use a case gauge, and will try the marker if needed. I understand 1.169 is max for a 9 mag. I will start there with a dummy round then I will be able to shorten the same round without have to make a bunch of test rounds as if I began short then going longer Thx! Unless you're shooting a 9mm 1911, being that long doesn't "get" you anything other than a slightly higher powder bill. Measure the width of your ejection port, keep it shorter than that and avoid annoying Unload and Show Clears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGOTGLOCKED Posted November 2, 2016 Author Share Posted November 2, 2016 21 hours ago, ArrDave said: Unless you're shooting a 9mm 1911, being that long doesn't "get" you anything other than a slightly higher powder bill. Measure the width of your ejection port, keep it shorter than that and avoid annoying Unload and Show Clears. Thanks Dave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGOTGLOCKED Posted November 2, 2016 Author Share Posted November 2, 2016 On 10/31/2016 at 1:12 PM, MemphisMechanic said: In general, you have plunk vs spin right, Glocked. Yes. Thanks Memphis. Just needed a base line of which was what and where to begin - cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGOTGLOCKED Posted November 2, 2016 Author Share Posted November 2, 2016 Ok, thank you to all! When I read all your input it really made sense. This is the most awesome forum, you guys are patient and really help those of us who are new to all this. This is what I did and where I am now. I made a dummy round (w/o charge nor primer), I seated an Acme coated 145 gr RN at just over 1.169 and crimped it at .378. It did plunk but would not spin. Backed it off just until it spun freely which was .165, then back to .150. All good. Either at lunch today or after work I will work up the new charge which was recommended to start and 10% less than what I was using with the 147 plated RN Xtreme. All sound about right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashDodson Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 I have never loaded plated/jacketed rounds but from what I have seen in the forum -10% is a good starting place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGOTGLOCKED Posted November 2, 2016 Author Share Posted November 2, 2016 33 minutes ago, CrashDodson said: I have never loaded plated/jacketed rounds but from what I have seen in the forum -10% is a good starting place. Thanks Crash! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGOTGLOCKED Posted November 2, 2016 Author Share Posted November 2, 2016 Was loading 9mm X-Treme plated 147 w/ 3.2 gr titegroup - shoots great! As you know know I have completed my Plunk & Spin test and without test firing I'm happy with results which is 1.150 COAL. I now want to load my new 9mm Acme Hi-Tech coated 145 gr also with titegroup. Earlier advice was reduce what I was shooting by 10% which would be 2.88 gr. However Lymans 49th for 147 gr lead shows start @ 2.5 gr titegroup, max is 2.8... Could really use advice here. What happens if charge is too light? Thx! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArrDave Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 (edited) 16 hours ago, IGOTGLOCKED said: Was loading 9mm X-Treme plated 147 w/ 3.2 gr titegroup - shoots great! As you know know I have completed my Plunk & Spin test and without test firing I'm happy with results which is 1.150 COAL. I now want to load my new 9mm Acme Hi-Tech coated 145 gr also with titegroup. Earlier advice was reduce what I was shooting by 10% which would be 2.88 gr. However Lymans 49th for 147 gr lead shows start @ 2.5 gr titegroup, max is 2.8... Could really use advice here. What happens if charge is too light? Thx! It will be extra dirty and may not cycle the action. Load up a couple test rounds. it won't hurt anything but you may get pretty bad SD due to powder sloshing around in the case. Edited November 3, 2016 by ArrDave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeinctown Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 Do yourself a favor and go to the Hodgdon website and go through their loading charts. They have a lot more data than the Lyman book does for every powder. compare the two and use reasonable judgement . Lyman has a ton of test data but most is for stuff I'll never touch nor have heard of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashDodson Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 While load data is good for a starting point they don't usually publish load data for long loaded competition loads. You won't find load data for .40 loaded to 1.2. the load data in books is for pressure at saami spec loads. Those of us loading long will be using more powder than the load books max. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGOTGLOCKED Posted November 4, 2016 Author Share Posted November 4, 2016 23 hours ago, ArrDave said: It will be extra dirty and may not cycle the action. Load up a couple test rounds. it won't hurt anything but you may get pretty bad SD due to powder sloshing around in the case. Thx Dave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGOTGLOCKED Posted November 4, 2016 Author Share Posted November 4, 2016 1 hour ago, CrashDodson said: While load data is good for a starting point they don't usually publish load data for long loaded competition loads. You won't find load data for .40 loaded to 1.2. the load data in books is for pressure at saami spec loads. Those of us loading long will be using more powder than the load books max. Makes sense Crash - thanks for bringing that to my attention to take into account! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGOTGLOCKED Posted November 4, 2016 Author Share Posted November 4, 2016 4 hours ago, mikeinctown said: Do yourself a favor and go to the Hodgdon website and go through their loading charts. They have a lot more data than the Lyman book does for every powder. compare the two and use reasonable judgement . Lyman has a ton of test data but most is for stuff I'll never touch nor have heard of. I did, and they do offer more powder powder choices however I only see they offer a caliber and not different types of bullets. From what I've read coated manufacturers recommend to use lead bullet load data. The bullet that is "assigned" to my choices is a Hornady XTP - I don't think that is lead or coated. Consequently it still left me unsure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashDodson Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 the xtp is a personal defense bullet i think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGOTGLOCKED Posted November 4, 2016 Author Share Posted November 4, 2016 (edited) 46 minutes ago, CrashDodson said: the xtp is a personal defense bullet i think Indeed it is, that is my point it's not a coated bullet. Consequently it still leaves me guessing. I have more info on the charge side but now less than I had on the bullet side... 46 minutes ago, CrashDodson said: Edited November 4, 2016 by IGOTGLOCKED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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