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3gunnuts

Re-Classification when the Down 1 goes into effect

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Since you cannot go move down in Class there are going to be a lot of people in classes where if they reshoot under the new -1= 1 second rule will not make their current Classification. How is that going to work?

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A lot of shooters can't shoot the classification they're in currently. Nothing would need to change to reflect that.

For example a SS who bumps to EX at a match. They probably can't shoot an EX level classifier the very next day. But they're an expert.

How many MA shooters have you heard day they can't shoot a MA level classifier at will? I've heard many say this very thing.

Nothing would need to change in the classifier or your classifications to reflect this upcoming point change.

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Couldn't they keep the scoring 1pt = 0.5 sec for the classifier?  

 

Why not?

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, B_RAD said:

Couldn't they keep the scoring 1pt = 0.5 sec for the classifier?  

 

Why not?

 

 

 

 

I think the argument would be that with double the penalty, it will change your approach. Maybe in 6 months or so we'll find out. 

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I think they will have to reshoot and recompute the Classifier matrix if they want to keep the membership divided up about the same as now.

They could leave it alone, and let match bumps level things out... or not.

I think they should redo the whole thing and write a Classifier that can be run as part of each and every Tier II or higher match without boring the entrants.

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Run the numbers in the differences between the old, better way of scoring and the new way. Keep the proportions and ratios the same. It's not hard math.....

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18 hours ago, rowdyb said:

Run the numbers in the differences between the old, better way of scoring and the new way. Keep the proportions and ratios the same. It's not hard math.....

But how would they do that, Rowdy?

When you upload classifiers to their website, all they ingest is the total time per stage for each guy.  No way to keep track of what was raw time and what was points down.

It's a reasonable guess that points down is a much higher percent of score for marksmen than it is for masters.  But they can't have empirical historical numbers to show exactly what that percentage is.

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I'm not saying this is how it will happen, but being here in AR I have had people I know are on tiger teams and at hq ask me, "what do you shoot the classifier in? what time for each stage? how many points down? can you do this every time? what are your averages?" So data, if not impressions, is being gathered.

You could also do a regression and look at a person's earlier classifications in the same division as well. Almost every Master in idpa does have historical numbers of when they were mm, ss and ex. Or people like me, who keep the paper copy of every classifier they've shot. For years.

It's math. It's not a huge jump to look at a good set of data and predict a change or plot a new point. Hell, you could write a linear algebra equation for the classifier and just make it a line and gather the numbers there. Change the values and variables for each division.

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I'll second Rowdy's comment on data.   One of our club members is an AC and is on the tiger team.    He's been accumulating hard data to help design the future classifier.   He has had all master class shooters in our club and area shoot variations of stage 1, 2, 3 and how it compares to their historical times on file for those stages.   I assume they are compiling this across the country.    I'll have to ask him.   He also mentioned once they have a correlation of how master class shooters shoot the new classifier its easy to back track (regression) and set the times for the other classes.

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For most of the shooters helping compile the data, they found just shooting the classifier and not thinking about the 1 point=1 second, they scored better.    I guess its that subconscious vs conscious mind thing.

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Which just comes back to prove the "this isn't going to change anything, it's just going to widen the chasm between the match-winning gamers and the average joes" argument as valid.

The fast and accurate guys who compete well as Experts and Masters are already crushing everyone else. This will upset the "wins by hosing" SS and EX guys, but they already get stomped by the former group.

Edited by MemphisMechanic

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My thoughts were unless the recalculate or have everyone reclassify under the new scoring there are going to be a lot of people stuck in higher divisions they are not competitive in.  Its going to suck for a lot of people that are going to get beat score wise by shooters classified under them.  I know it happens a bit now but it will be disheartening for some always finishing at the bottom of their class.

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Now that we have the new classifier stages we can see that the challenge has changed enough that a simple mathematical function conversion would be of limited utility.  The elimination of kneeling around barrels is going to make it easier for those shooters who have bad knees and/or an extra 40 pounds to perform better.  Given the IDPA demographic, that's probably a good thing.

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On 10/14/2016 at 9:29 PM, 3gunnuts said:

...  Its going to suck for a lot of people that are going to get beat score wise by shooters classified under them.  I know it happens a bit now but it will be disheartening for some always finishing at the bottom of their class.

Might be a good reason to practice more. ;)

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On 10/15/2016 at 0:29 AM, 3gunnuts said:

My thoughts were unless the recalculate or have everyone reclassify under the new scoring there are going to be a lot of people stuck in higher divisions they are not competitive in.  Its going to suck for a lot of people that are going to get beat score wise by shooters classified under them.  I know it happens a bit now but it will be disheartening for some always finishing at the bottom of their class.

Are we talking about feelings in reference to a competition?

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Didn't the same thing occur when ssp times where lowered a few years ago to people that classified under easier time constraints?

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I'm interested to see how this plays out. I saw a reference to "tiger teams" in the thread above. What are they?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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Tiger teams are made up of persons of vast experience and wisdom who advise the BoD on what they should put in the next edition of rules.

My current thought as to the Classifier.  The No Kneel Classifier presumably goes into effect today, although of course there is nobody in the office on a Sunday Holiday to post it on IDPA.com.  However, the Head Circle Target is not required until next year.  I think head box -1 will make a lot of difference, so will there be new classifications this year and next? 

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There will be no recalculations. Ever. You are what you are from the time and rule set you shot it. No one is going to do the regression and retroactively figure out what you'd be from when you did it originally and then now.

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If your classification brings to outpace your skill, that seems like good motivation to practice and catch up. Not to whine about it.

 

But that's just me.

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Think of the classifier as determining what team you're on. So when you have your "combine" (the classifier) and are drafted from the performance onto team Sharpshooter or team Expert that is what it is. Then it's up to you to now play your games on that team and put up good stats.

 

You made a team, it's now up to you to play the games for that team.

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Question:  Are the classifiers supposed to be run with the new -1 head targets with the 4" down 0 circle right now?  I thought the targets didn't go into effect until November.

 

I missed expert by 0.73 seconds a few weeks ago shooting CCP, in part because I had two down 1's on the headshots......not a big deal just curious.  The match director had made 4" circles on the heads by pressing them somehow with a 4" circular piece of metal or something.

Edited by narwhal
correct time by which I missed expert by

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No. For now, Classifiers are supposed to be shot with the "current" targets. However, it's optional to use the new targets at club matches.

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