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Dillon 650 and EGW 9mm die feeding issues


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I'm sorry if this is a repeated question but I've been trying to weed through all the posts and get an issue resolved with my press with no luck.  I have a Dillon 650 set up for 9mm and had been using an EGW die on my Hornaday LNL press prior to getting the 650.  I have noticed with the 650 I'm having issues with the cases getting crushed while attempting to size the cases.  I normally catch it but sometimes it does damage the case to the point I just have to toss it.  I have tried re-aligning the press per Dillon's instructions with no luck.  I have also attempted to adjust the case slide by raising the rod all the way so the slide can slide all the way into the press but I still have the issue.  I shoot USPSA and prefer to use the EGW Die but I have been told I may be better off just using the Dillon sizing die.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.  I'm about to throw in the towel on the Dillon press because this die worked on my Hornady and I was able to get alot more rounds done prior to switching over, but my buddy uses the EGW die without problems on his 650, but he had no idea why it wasn't working on mine.

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My suggestion would be to first insure the shell plate is tightened down enough to reduce any play and load all the stations with dummy rounds raise the ram, loosen the dies and re-torque in order to center them in their bores. Then look at the case feed shuttle ensure that the triangular block hasn't slipped back.

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1 minute ago, Boxerglocker said:

My suggestion would be to first insure the shell plate is tightened down enough to reduce any play and load all the stations with dummy rounds raise the ram, loosen the dies and re-torque in order to center them in their bores. Then look at the case feed shuttle ensure that the triangular block hasn't slipped back.

This! Don't despair, I can load 1200 an hour on my 650 with an EGW Udie. 

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I wish you the best of luck.  I have been fighting this issue since the purchase of my 650 a few months ago.  I have tried everything.  Re-alignment, packing grease under the locator, purchasing a bearing kit in order to have the shellplate as tight as possible, adjusting the timing, Whidden tool head, leveled the press, ran an empty case up into the die before tightening it down.  I even converted the whidden tool head to float the resizing die. 

Nothing has completely eliminated the issue.  While it has gotten better, there are still times when it will miss-align 2 or 3 cases in a row and then be perfect for the next 50 rounds. It doesn't even matter if the press is spotless clean, it is completely random. I have ensured I use the same stroke of the handle every time. 

I personally think its a poor design since there is nothing that holds the case in on station one.  When I called dillion, I was told one thing... Use dillion dies.  Even after trying that suggestion, I still get one or two cases that hit the edge of the die out of 100.  Called dillion again and was told that was acceptable as no machine is perfect.

I completely understand some people have no issues, but I think as the tolerances of the machines stack, some people experience this issue.  Are the machines built a few years ago within tighter specs?  I also found when researching this issue, it seems to happen alot more on 9mm then any other caliber.  The funny thing is, my buddy who bought a machine the week after I did has the same exact problem.

I guess the alternative to get the best performance at this point is to run a dillion die in station 1 and a U die in station 2.  It just sucks that we have to resort to that in order to get decent alignment for the U die. 

If I didn't load 9 major, I wouldn't even worry about it, but the extra margin of safety that the U Die gives to prevent bullet setback is important to me.

 

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Sure fire fix: Get a 1050. ;)

I'm completely kidding... While I really do enjoy using a 9mm Lee U-die on my 1050 without issue, I really wish I would've bought a 650 instead.

Watching this thread with interest... hope you guys get a good fix for this.

 

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7 minutes ago, jrn1975 said:

I wish you the best of luck.  I have been fighting this issue since the purchase of my 650 a few months ago.  I have tried everything.  Re-alignment, packing grease under the locator, purchasing a bearing kit in order to have the shellplate as tight as possible, adjusting the timing, Whidden tool head, leveled the press, ran an empty case up into the die before tightening it down.  I even converted the whidden tool head to float the resizing die. 

Nothing has completely eliminated the issue.  While it has gotten better, there are still times when it will miss-align 2 or 3 cases in a row and then be perfect for the next 50 rounds. It doesn't even matter if the press is spotless clean, it is completely random. I have ensured I use the same stroke of the handle every time. 

I personally think its a poor design since there is nothing that holds the case in on station one.  When I called dillion, I was told one thing... Use dillion dies.  Even after trying that suggestion, I still get one or two cases that hit the edge of the die out of 100.  Called dillion again and was told that was acceptable as no machine is perfect.

I completely understand some people have no issues, but I think as the tolerances of the machines stack, some people experience this issue.  Are the machines built a few years ago within tighter specs?  I also found when researching this issue, it seems to happen alot more on 9mm then any other caliber.  The funny thing is, my buddy who bought a machine the week after I did has the same exact problem.

I guess the alternative to get the best performance at this point is to run a dillion die in station 1 and a U die in station 2.  It just sucks that we have to resort to that in order to get decent alignment for the U die. 

If I didn't load 9 major, I wouldn't even worry about it, but the extra margin of safety that the U Die gives to prevent bullet setback is important to me.

 

I have run the same 9mm EGW die on my 1050 as my 650 with very minimal issues. Most of the time it's me short stroking the press. You have to remember the gaining the benefit of the EGW die in a smaller case diameter, you lose reliability in respect to keeping the process speed.

 

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10 minutes ago, Boxerglocker said:

I have run the same 9mm EGW die on my 1050 as my 650 with very minimal issues. Most of the time it's me short stroking the press. You have to remember the gaining the benefit of the EGW die in a smaller case diameter, you lose reliability in respect to keeping the process speed.

 

This^^^^^

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7 minutes ago, Boxerglocker said:

I have run the same 9mm EGW die on my 1050 as my 650 with very minimal issues. Most of the time it's me short stroking the press. You have to remember the gaining the benefit of the EGW die in a smaller case diameter, you lose reliability in respect to keeping the process speed.

 

Completely understandable... The lock n load the 650 replaced never had one instance of miss-alignment of the U die that is currently in the 650.  The main reason I moved to the 650 was hopes to automate the reloading process with a Mark 7 autodrive.  However, until I can get the press operating better that isn't going to happen. 

So does the 1050 have the same issue with miss-aligning brass to the resizing die? 

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2 hours ago, LawDog64 said:

I'm sorry if this is a repeated question but I've been trying to weed through all the posts and get an issue resolved with my press with no luck.  I have a Dillon 650 set up for 9mm and had been using an EGW die on my Hornaday LNL press prior to getting the 650.  I have noticed with the 650 I'm having issues with the cases getting crushed while attempting to size the cases.  I normally catch it but sometimes it does damage the case to the point I just have to toss it.  I have tried re-aligning the press per Dillon's instructions with no luck.  I have also attempted to adjust the case slide by raising the rod all the way so the slide can slide all the way into the press but I still have the issue.  I shoot USPSA and prefer to use the EGW Die but I have been told I may be better off just using the Dillon sizing die.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.  I'm about to throw in the towel on the Dillon press because this die worked on my Hornady and I was able to get alot more rounds done prior to switching over, but my buddy uses the EGW die without problems on his 650, but he had no idea why it wasn't working on mine.

You may want to check the 13937 case insert slide spring. It can be damaged and still work (sort of). The picture attached was the last one I took out of my 650

CaseInsertSlideSpring.jpg

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I also received the same advise from Dillon to use their dies and am debating doing just that.  jrn1975 I had a few alignment issues with the lnl press but they were few and far between.  In several 1000 rounds loaded I had maybe 1 or 2 that I had to adjust the alignment.  with my Dillong it seems like every couple of cases will have this issue.

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2 minutes ago, LawDog64 said:

ChuckS if that part is broken on my press then Dillon has a huge problem with that part.  I've only loaded maybe 1000 rounds with my press that I purchased brand new but I will go ahead and check it when I get home.

that spring was 12 years old. Swapping it out solved the insert problem on my 650.

 

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Had the same issue all week.  My press was just rebuilt by Dillon, but when they did it, was set up for .223.  What worked for me:

1.  Tighten shell plate down, if any springy-ness at station 4, it's too loose.

2.  Lube your cases well, I use Dillon but could see an immediate improvement once I got everything smoothed out. ( I lubed before, but apparently not enough)

3.  Pulled case insert apart, lubed with grease, let it slam home a couple times by hand, then re-adjusted rod twice.  Make sure you have a primed case in station 2!

4.  Greased station 1 locator.

5.  Cleaned shell plate.

6.  Redo the u die, and tighten with a case in it.

The above are in no particular order.

I finally got lucky, after 2-300 rounds and doing the above, she's back to running super smooth and cranking out rounds with no issues.

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I have tried all of that bishop.. while it has improved performance I still get a minimum of 5 miss aligned every 100..  

Here is a picture of a case fully inserted into station one by hand and the ram raised.  If you reference the decapping pin as the center of the die you will notice how far off it is.  When raised a bit more, the case deflects off the mouth of the die.  This is with the dillion die.  With the u die, the case hit the edge and either gets ding or bounces in.

20161012_120236-1024x768.jpg

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2 hours ago, jrn1975 said:

Completely understandable... The lock n load the 650 replaced never had one instance of miss-alignment of the U die that is currently in the 650.  The main reason I moved to the 650 was hopes to automate the reloading process with a Mark 7 autodrive.  However, until I can get the press operating better that isn't going to happen. 

So does the 1050 have the same issue with miss-aligning brass to the resizing die? 

It has on occasion but very minimal. In all honesty I only went to the U-die because on an unrelated issue and it was a prize off a table somewhere. The XL650 I have is a very tight running machine with a shell plate bearing mod and threaded and locked down tool head.

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1 hour ago, jrn1975 said:

I have tried all of that bishop.. while it has improved performance I still get a minimum of 5 miss aligned every 100..  

Here is a picture of a case fully inserted into station one by hand and the ram raised.  If you reference the decapping pin as the center of the die you will notice how far off it is.  When raised a bit more, the case deflects off the mouth of the die.  This is with the dillion die.  With the u die, the case hit the edge and either gets ding or bounces in.

20161012_120236-1024x768.jpg

Can you pop a case in the powder station as well? I'm curious if the misalignment is on every station, or just that one station. In the photo it appears way off, so the only other thing I can think of is to insert a case like that, take a photo, then let the shellplate rotate, insert another case, take a picture, rotate shellplate, insert another case, etc until you have a similar photo with a case insterted at every point on the shellplate and showing the #1 station. It may be possible that the shellplate was just machined incorrectly.

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I can see if I can get a picture of it.  I will say from memory, I don't have this issue with any other station.  I have ran the U die in station 2 with no issues at all.

That is the puzzling thing to me.  If all the other stations line up fine, why doesn't station 1. I have tried 2 different tool heads and both have this misalignment issue with station 1.

You would think that dillion would align the platform off of station one and not station two using the aliment tool.

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jrn1975's picture looks a lot like mine...I wish I could get a photo of mine but I'm at work at the moment....sometimes it feeds fine and other times it doesn't...but it will damage several cases in a row for me so I don't think its the shell plate that is bad.  I've already used the alignment tool and that didn't help but primers feed fine, and the rest of the stations are good to go

 

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23 minutes ago, mikeinctown said:

Can you pop a case in the powder station as well? I'm curious if the misalignment is on every station, or just that one station. In the photo it appears way off, so the only other thing I can think of is to insert a case like that, take a photo, then let the shellplate rotate, insert another case, take a picture, rotate shellplate, insert another case, etc until you have a similar photo with a case insterted at every point on the shellplate and showing the #1 station. It may be possible that the shellplate was just machined incorrectly.

24 minutes ago, mikeinctown said:

Can you pop a case in the powder station as well? I'm curious if the misalignment is on every station, or just that one station. In the photo it appears way off, so the only other thing I can think of is to insert a case like that, take a photo, then let the shellplate rotate, insert another case, take a picture, rotate shellplate, insert another case, etc until you have a similar photo with a case insterted at every point on the shellplate and showing the #1 station. It may be possible that the shellplate was just machined incorrectly.

 

Looking at this picture I would do this.... does it matte which slot you hand place a shell in? If not, I would mark each shell plate slot with a price of tape and a number. Load a few and see if the misalignment is consistent with the same slot.

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I know what your problem is. Mine was doing it as well. And I can see it in your picture.

Don't know the official name for the part, so excuse me for that. The wire that goes around the center bolt is not fully inserted into the hole near station 1. I can tell by your photo it is too high. When that happens the wire blocks the insertion of the case into station 1. It doesn't get all the way into the shell plate and gets crushed by the u-die. Make sure that wire is down as far as it can go. 

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7 minutes ago, MHitchcock said:

I know what your problem is. Mine was doing it as well. And I can see it in your picture.

Don't know the official name for the part, so excuse me for that. The wire that goes around the center bolt is not fully inserted into the hole near station 1. I can tell by your photo it is too high. When that happens the wire blocks the insertion of the case into station 1. It doesn't get all the way into the shell plate and gets crushed by the u-die. Make sure that wire is down as far as it can go. 

hmmm...maybe thats my issue...i didn't know about that being the possible cause I will definitely check that

Edited by LawDog64
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Yeah, it took me 20 minutes of tinkering to figure out what was happening. It started after I put things back together after cleaning under the shell plate. If it is up just a bit more than all the way in (like 1/16 of an inch), it blocks the ram that inserts the shell at the very end of the stroke. This makes the shell only make it 3/4 of the way into the shell plate and it gets crushed. 

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2 minutes ago, MHitchcock said:

Yeah, it took me 20 minutes of tinkering to figure out what was happening. It started after I put things back together after cleaning under the shell plate. If it is up just a bit more than all the way in (like 1/16 of an inch), it blocks the ram that inserts the shell at the very end of the stroke. This makes the shell only make it 3/4 of the way into the shell plate and it gets crushed. 

Yeah I didn't even think of that since I bought the press brand new and its been doing this since I unboxed it and set it up

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7 minutes ago, MHitchcock said:

I know what your problem is. Mine was doing it as well. And I can see it in your picture.

Don't know the official name for the part, so excuse me for that. The wire that goes around the center bolt is not fully inserted into the hole near station 1. I can tell by your photo it is too high. When that happens the wire blocks the insertion of the case into station 1. It doesn't get all the way into the shell plate and gets crushed by the u-die. Make sure that wire is down as far as it can go. 

That's a good theory, however in the picture above, the case was manually inserted all the way into the shell plate and is not touching the wire.  I completely agree the wire is currently sitting too high, and that is because it is tore down ATM and I haven't re-assembled it yet.

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