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Shooting Production with a CZ tactical ?


shoots100

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I shoot ISR double action with a S&W929 and 327JM and am looking at selling one of them to get a CZ bottom feeder with decocker to shoot production class.

I'm looking at getting the decocker model, as I don't want to have to deal with letting the hammer down on a live round before starting a stage or training.

I know it can be done, but I just don't feel safe doing it.

I'm a southpaw shooter and after reading about the CZ's ability to switch the mag release for LH use and the ambi decocker of the tactical model has me hooked on getting one.

 The only thing stopping me now, is the heavy DA pull of the stock model and making the DA trigger pull acceptable and reliable for competition + training with an aftermarket kit.

Is it feasible and worth trying to accomplish a better DA trigger pull, or should I look elsewhere ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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14 minutes ago, GrumpyOne said:

Where is "your neck of the woods"?

 

The Prison state of NY. Flatland region, just northwest of the Big Rotten Apple.

The main reason why I shoot revolvers and 1911's.

Looking to get a southpaw friendly double stack decocker model that has 10 round mags available, and the capability for high cap mags for when I move to a free state.

CZ fits the bill and now it's time to get one and have it ready for 2017's Steel season.

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At a minimum all you need is a 13# hammer spring, Rami 2075 FP Spring and a CZC extended firing pin.  But that's the "minimum" for lightening DA to reliably pop anything.  You can polish or you can shoot a ton.  You can get all the other go fast bits if you want.  Another statutory item is the stainless steel "drop free" mag brake from either CZC or CGW.  It makes changing hammer springs easier as well as makes mags drop free.

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On Thursday, October 13, 2016 at 11:41 AM, ArrDave said:

At a minimum all you need is a 13# hammer spring, Rami 2075 FP Spring and a CZC extended firing pin.  But that's the "minimum" for lightening DA to reliably pop anything.  You can polish or you can shoot a ton.  You can get all the other go fast bits if you want.  Another statutory item is the stainless steel "drop free" mag brake from either CZC or CGW.  It makes changing hammer springs easier as well as makes mags drop free.

Thanks for the tip's.

I have a list of the minimum must do enhancements that I'm going to do, once I have one.

Thankfully, Most of these enhancements are cheap and easy to do.

The shoot a ton instead of polishing method is right up my ally.

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On 10/15/2016 at 6:24 PM, shoots100 said:

Thanks for the tip's.

I have a list of the minimum must do enhancements that I'm going to do, once I have one.

Thankfully, Most of these enhancements are cheap and easy to do.

The shoot a ton instead of polishing method is right up my ally.

Another "nice to have" Item is the Cajun Gun Works floating trigger pin.  If you shoot a ton, you'll break trigger return springs.  The stock pin takes a beating to get out, the floating trigger pin you can punch out usually without a hammer, just a punch.  

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On 10/11/2016 at 7:40 PM, shoots100 said:

I'm looking at getting the decocker model, as I don't want to have to deal with letting the hammer down on a live round before starting a stage or training.

I know it can be done, but I just don't feel safe doing it.

 

It is weird that we consider it safe to draw and fire a single action gun with a 2 lb trigger and thumb safety from locked and cocked as fast as we can, yet, lowering a hammer slowly with the muzzle always pointed in a safe direction causes concern.

I think if you were used to the latter as normal and then presented with the former you would be a lot more concerned.

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6 hours ago, IHAVEGAS said:

It is weird that we consider it safe to draw and fire a single action gun with a 2 lb trigger and thumb safety from locked and cocked as fast as we can, yet, lowering a hammer slowly with the muzzle always pointed in a safe direction causes concern.

I think if you were used to the latter as normal and then presented with the former you would be a lot more concerned.

If the gun discharges during either process, your DQ'd at a match and may have shot someone in another scenario.

I've seen a lot more accidentally discharges during the process of letting the hammer down on a live round.

This pistol will also be used for live fire training and after the fun ends, it's one less worry to have to deal with, especially with gloves on in cold weather conditions.

I thought I was dead set on getting an SP-01 Tactical with decocker, then I find out the P-09 comes with the Omega trigger system and I can have the option of decocker or safety and interchangeable backstraps.

I know it's not a steel framed pistol, but after searching this forum and the Google, I find that the 09 is more than capable for what I need to do with it.

Like the SP-01 tactical, it's southpaw friendly and has many enhancements available.

I thought picking one brand was going to make it an easy decision !

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You're worried about it because you're thinking about it wrong.

Thumbing the hammer down, or pinching it and easing it down, both rely on some sort of grip to restrain the hammer. .

Instead, place your thumbnail between the hammer and slide, depress the trigger, and slowly roll your thumb out of the way:

 

As foolproof as anything else you can do involving a firearm. This method puts your body between the firing pin and hammer, instead of behind it trying to hold it back.

It also works great with gloves on.

Edited by MemphisMechanic
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I've been using a decocker SP-01.  It's definitely not holding me back.  I started out with the "must do mods", then eventually did them all.  The trigger is fantastic.  The only reason I'm thinking about switching is to go to Tanfo because of the bigger grip.  The P09, from what little I've handled it, seems like it would be a great polymer gun once you put some skate tape on it.

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2 hours ago, shoots100 said:

If the gun discharges during either process, your DQ'd at a match and may have shot someone in another scenario.

If you ever allow the muzzle to be pointed in an unsafe direction while using the decocker or lowering the hammer manually it is a dq.

Nothing is impossible, but I can't picture anyone pointing the gun in an unsafe direction while lowering the hammer.

AD's do happen during unload and show clear (I haven't witnessed one during make ready but have been told of it happening) , it is not an issue (aside from wet britches and the dq) as long as the muzzle was pointed in a safe direction during hammer down. 

No need to debate though, sounds like you have a gun that suits you, so, great!

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Thanks for the concern, but to me there is no debate on safety, no matter how foolproof it's thought to be.

That debate is a topic for another section of this forum.

I've seen the proof and have read the testimonials that both the SP-01 tactical + P-09 can be made to function reliably with a lighter DA trigger, with little expense and work.

After some deliberation, I've settled on the purchase of a P-09 with some upgrades.

If I like it, I'll probably buy it's steel framed cousin.

That's If I'll be able to buy semi auto firearms after the election, which is a whole different topic.

 

 

 

 

 

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On 10/11/2016 at 7:40 PM, shoots100 said:

II know it can be done, but I just don't feel safe doing it.

 

8 hours ago, shoots100 said:

Thanks for the concern, but to me there is no debate on safety, no matter how foolproof it's thought to be.

That debate is a topic for another section of this forum.

I do not think there is any debate, thousands of people lower the hammers manually tens of thousands of times every week, at minimum. The procedure works and is as field tested as field tested gets. 

Since you have questioned the safety/wisdom of a common practice followed by thousands of shooters (and done so in this section of the forum), it seems reasonable to point out that there is not a rational path to injury unless someone is pointing a loaded gun in an unsafe direction. 

Not arguing with you, I respect and support your right to do whatever you are most comfortable with, but forums are read by many. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Received my P09 set up with the Decocker on election day.

Going to debut it at the last match of the year at the local steel plate club tomorrow AM.

It's stock except for the Dawson FO front sight.

Swapped the magazine release to southpaw and did a lot of drawing and dry firing over the last couple of days.

Just received the safariland mag pouches this afternoon and now my bat belt is complete.

During the winter I'll Cajunize it with the recommended parts.

Got two loads with longshot powder and 125 grn Blue bullets that worked in a friends STI, so I'm hoping they'll work in my CZ.

If not, I'll beg for some rounds.

I'm still going to shoot my 929 in ISR, but am excited to see how the CZ will perform.

Now I need to try and get some sleep.

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34 minutes ago, Bunsen said:

Send it to Stu and tell him you want ti set-up for production plus order spare parts since if you use it you will need it. I shoot an accu-shadow in production. Could not be happier.

Not legal by the rules to modify a SA to DA to shoot Production. It is not on the approved list.

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I have a list of recommended parts and spares to order from CGW after hunting seasons over.

I've been using the search function to find all I can about modifying the 09 too.

Since I'm using it as a training and comp gun, I need to keep it reliable enough to set off all the types of ammo I'm going to encounter, as well as my reloads.

I'm going to start with the CGW Ext firing + retain pins, S/S guide rod, 15# recoil spring and Comp spring kit.

That should keep it reliable and lighten the DA trigger pull a bit.

Very easy mods to do and if needed, I can always install the stock parts.

I shot over 500 rounds of different bullet weights and velocities without an issue at all over the weekend.

From 4.2- 5.3 grains of longshot behind the 125 grn blue bullet, My match 147extreme 929 revolver loads,  115 grn red reloads, American eagle, wolf and factory Win white box.

Gobbled them up and spit them out like a champ.

I had the best grouping and smallest velocity spread with the 4.5 grn charge of longshot I tested this afternoon.

Too bad I didn't have enough time to test loads before the comp, as I know it would've given me better times for my first production class match.

I'm only expecting better things to come with the addition of the CGW parts.

 

 

 

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To be honest, I don't the no that you can go wrong with either choice as they are both CZ. I personally think that you would be happier with the Tactical though as the recoil management is much better than the P09. This is key in competition. I have shot the Shadow 2 in completion and I always use the the roll thumb method as in the video above. It is safe, and you will have no issues. 

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