racknrider Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 1 hour ago, GmanCdp said: CCP height compared to a Ruger SR1911 9mm for CCP division equates to, Ruger specs 5.45",IDPA specs 5.375" for a difference of.075"... Really??? So new inserts for the official box? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwayne Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 And you will have to have a magazine in the gun also,,,,,,,,,,,my 4" Kimber is no longer legal without a magwell or magazine!!!! Why bother to change the length to 4.375 long barrels???? On a 1911 that won't fit the new box either!!!! Looks if Bill is overstocked on compact guns for sure and at his price he will probably get to keep them!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMB Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 Well it appears that IDPA has once again let it's members down. With that said it looks like there will be more USPA and 3-Gun in our future and way less IDPA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racknrider Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 (edited) 44 minutes ago, GMB said: Well it appears that IDPA has once again let it's members down. With that said it looks like there will be more USPA and 3-Gun in our future and way less IDPA. Edited November 16, 2016 by racknrider Doh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S391 Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 (edited) On 11/15/2016 at 8:02 AM, JusticeOfToren said: Understood that slide lock reload is now the "preferred reload", but still need clarifications on whether the reload with retention is still considered IPDA legal reload thus can be used as long as facing no nonengaged targets. There was an acknowledgment on the Facebook forum that the rules team needs to better of explaining this but yes, reload with retention / tac reloads are still allowed. Edited November 17, 2016 by S391 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooke Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 On 11/15/2016 at 3:08 PM, Tokarev said: Where's the harm in updating magazine capacities to reflect our current political environment? The 10rd ban is gone. Why not bump capacity to 15 or something? Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk Because 10 limits force you to think and learn to reload on the fly. There are always USPSA and IDPA shooters who want higher mag round limits> I think the thinking part is valuable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokarev Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Because 10 limits force you to think and learn to reload on the fly. There are always USPSA and IDPA shooters who want higher mag round limits> I think the thinking part is valuable.I don't disagree. But some of that could be overcome with stage design. And it would end IDPA's unintentional agreement with magazine capacity bans. At least 10rd ones. Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racknrider Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 1 hour ago, Brooke said: Because 10 limits force you to think and learn to reload on the fly. There are always USPSA and IDPA shooters who want higher mag round limits> I think the thinking part is valuable. With 18 round limits, many stages would not require a reload if there were no restrictions. I am in favor of the 10 round limit as it allows more platforms to be competitive rather than only the highest capacity models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokarev Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Most stages only require 1 reload. That'd still be the case with a 15rd limiter. Just my opinion and nothing else. I also feel similarly about USPSA's Limited 10. Might make sense to allow that division at the local level but not nationally. Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHAVEGAS Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Fishing vests are now outlawed as they are not suitable for pcc and it would not be fair to make pcc shooters wear something different. Other tactical garments are available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B_RAD Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 (edited) Is there any reason for not being able to leave an empty mag behind with a round in the chamber? To me the gun is no less affective in this situation but actually more so! Think about it, now with the new rules, you can reload across openings or on the move as long as all targets have been engaged. What's more safe and or real world legit? To do that with an empty chamber and mag in the gun or keeping a round in the chamber and already working on the new loaded mag? As well as not having to manipulate and slide lock. That's not only more applicable to the fundamentals of the sport but also doing it in a more efficient and faster way! Three reasons I can think of why it's not allowed. 1. It's too USPSA'y 2. It could be too difficult for 1911 shooters to load a full mag with the slide forward. 3. Might be too difficult for the SO's to watch? The last two make sense. Not trying to be rude or bag on IDPA. Thoughts? Edited November 17, 2016 by B_RAD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v1911 Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Because Bill said so. He's not a fan of what he refers to as Speed Reloads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHAVEGAS Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 3 minutes ago, v1911 said: Because Bill said so. He's not a fan of what he refers to as Speed Reloads. Wonder what he is fond of http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Short-Barrel-Rifle-SBR-AR9-Carbine-Beretta-Receiver-9mm-113-Barrel-Fluted-1-10-Twist-Black/productinfo/RIFLE824/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 Do you think PCC is going to sell a lot of $2000 (plus sights) carbines? I don't, not any more than CDP sells a lot of $3000+ .45s. I think it may be a home for the multitude of basement LegoGuns that nobody could figure out a use for after they were assembled. Not to mention the Hi Point carbines with their native ten shot magazines. Assuming any number of that demographic is willing to get out and shoot where score is kept. I call the reload with empty magazine and round in chamber the Cooper Reload because The Gunner's Guru thought you ought to be able to count shots that well. But then he was talking about 7 shot .45s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHicks Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 I've seen lots of comments over the years about equipment rules being set up to allow Wilson Combat guns. I haven't seen a lot of them and nearly every one I've seen is a regular, full size 1911. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastluck13 Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 It seems to me the rules are self defeating. how many IDPA shooters can come over and crush a USPSA match? Now how many USPSA shooters wreck shop in an IDPA match? There is a reason people call it I Dont Practice Anymore. Stop making dumb rules. it only inhibits your ability to be proficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHAVEGAS Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 8 hours ago, fastluck13 said: Stop making dumb rules. it only inhibits your ability to be proficient. I honestly think that it is also one reason I have had to dq many idpa shooters for safety violations. Too much distraction with ticky tack rules and detailed stage procedures can get in the way of focus on basic safe gun handling. Could be strictly that IDPA is more of a new shooter sport though, whatever the reason, I will have to dq 4 or 5 IDPA guys for every 1 USPSA shooter, and I hate to dq anybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanks Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 15 hours ago, B_RAD said: ...now with the new rules, you can reload across openings or on the move as long as all targets have been engaged. I am confused about the reload rules (USPSA shooter here). So, if I have an empty gun I can't reload as I am moving between shooting arrays? Also, while engaging targets and I run empty I have to duck back behind cover to reload if I have shot at 2 of the 3 target array? I am confused about having all targets being engaged, if I have engaged all targets then I wouldn't need to reload. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooke Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 1 hour ago, tanks said: I am confused about the reload rules (USPSA shooter here). So, if I have an empty gun I can't reload as I am moving between shooting arrays? Also, while engaging targets and I run empty I have to duck back behind cover to reload if I have shot at 2 of the 3 target array? I am confused about having all targets being engaged, if I have engaged all targets then I wouldn't need to reload. Partially incorrect. Currently you cannot leave a covered position with an empty gun. You must reload and have the gun in battery before leaving cover. In the proposed new rules you can leave cover if you are not exposed to an unengaged target. Currently if you run the gun dry in the open, you can reload (in the open) but not fire a shot until you reach cover. In the new proposal you can reload and continue to engage targets in the open. If you have engaged all targets IN A GIVEN ARRAY (view) you can cross an opening while reloading to continue shooting the stage. Currently you cannot do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B_RAD Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 ^^^^this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArrDave Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 The more I think about the rules and how they should change them, the more I think that GADPA got it right when they took their ball and went home in 2015. They have a gamer vest division (that allows dots and WMLs), they have a USPSA division (basically limited), single stack and open. Time plus scoring (albeit weird, somewhat), major/minor in all divisions, cover lines. The liberalized Tac load is a good thing, but going the next step and dropping partially spent mags should be there IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roddy556 Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 I found the following part a bit confusing: "5.6.1 Failure to do right penalty. A 20 second failure to do right penalty is assessed for gross unsportsmanlike conduct. Non-inclusive examples of this conduct are: Cussing out a SO, throwing a piece of their equipment on the ground, throwing a tantrum for any reason or violating the shooter’s code of conduct. 5.6.2 Note: The FTDR is intended to be used solely as a penalty for acts on the part of the shooter to circumvent or violate the rules and by doing so gain a competitive advantage." Cussing and throwing equipmen't does not gain a shooter a competitive advantage and according to the second paragraph that is the sole time FTDR is to be used so how can it be applied? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillR1 Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 (edited) On 11/15/2016 at 1:08 PM, Tokarev said: Where's the harm in updating magazine capacities to reflect our current political environment? The 10rd ban is gone. Why not bump capacity to 15 or something? Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk A couple of issues there... 1. Several states still have the mag capacity limits. The shooters in those states would be unable to legally acquire the equipment to compete in other states. It's more fair for everyone to keep the limits at 10 rounds. 2. Raising the mag capactity for SSP/ESP would likely kill the single stack 9mm guns. Edited November 22, 2016 by BillR1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokarev Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 A couple of issues there... 1. Several states still have the mag capacity limits. The shooters in those states would be unable to legally aquire the equipment to compete in other states. It's more fair for everyone to keep the limits at 10 rounds. 2. Raising the mag capactity for SSP/ESP would likely kill the single stack 9mm guns.How many guys run 1911 ESP guns? Most guys in my area use a Glock with the occasional S&W or SIG turning up. So what about shooters from NY? Are we going to lower capacities to whatever the current law is there to keep it fair? If the ban exists then keep the division at the local level. Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillR1 Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 We have several guys running 9mm 1911s in ESP. It's a popular gun. I doubt IDPA will want to alienate that large of a number of shooters. Anyway, if you really need to shoot more rounds than that, there's always Limited or NFC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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