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blasterboy

19 years in IPSC, first arbitration.

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Here goes!

Over 10 things went wrong for this to happen, I'll try to keep it simple.  14 shot the pre-match.  On a particular stage competitor 13 realized you could see part of a bobber before hitting the activating popper, so he shot it stationary.  I was his RO, I did not order a re-shoot, I think it was a smart strategy on the competitor's part.  The next day I am about to shoot the stage when I realize there's now a vision barrier blocking me from doing the same.  I make my protest know to the RO and scorekeeper, who say they'll talk to the MD as the RM is only arriving latter that day (it's Friday AM).  I shoot the stage, under the belief competitor 13 will have to re-shoot.  Nobody is disputing that a modification was made.  That afternoon, competitor 13 and RM arrive (carpooling to match) and I let them both know there will need to be a reshoot. Competitor 13 says, "not my problem, I'm done the match, my gun is at home".  The RM goes to talk to the MD, no action is taken.  Saturday, no action taken.  I bring my concern to the RM again, he asks "why are you complaining? you smoked his time on that stage"  I replied, "I'm not aware of the results, my competition should have to shoot the same stage I shot, maybe I'd beet him by more?"  Sunday morning I filed an arbitration on this stage and another (nearly identical scenario, fault lines moved making stage more difficult before I and the other 35 competitors shot)

I referenced rule 2.3.3.1, as the actions of 1 competitor, caused the modification, I asked that a re-shoots be ordered for competitor 13.

The arbitration committee, gave me back my money but they tossed both stages, stating it was impossible for everybody to re-shoot the stages, referring to rule 2.3.4  Obviously, I didn't win the match and finished a very close 2nd.

Questions:

1.  Can a committee do anything else but uphold or deny my arbitration?

(I asked for competitor 13 to be ordered to re-shoot,  to me it was clear that his actions led to the modifications.  I got my money, but they didn't uphold my arbitration)

2.  Is "I don't have my gun" not refusing to re-shoot?  (2.3.3.3 a competitor who refuses to re-shoot gets zero....)

3.  Should an RM ever be looking at stage results when disputes over modification and unfair advantage arise?

 

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41 minutes ago, blasterboy said:

 

Questions:

1.  Can a committee do anything else but uphold or deny my arbitration?

(I asked for competitor 13 to be ordered to re-shoot,  to me it was clear that his actions led to the modifications.  I got my money, but they didn't uphold my arbitration)

2.  Is "I don't have my gun" not refusing to re-shoot?  (2.3.3.3 a competitor who refuses to re-shoot gets zero....)

3.  Should an RM ever be looking at stage results when disputes over modification and unfair advantage arise?

 

I looked in my rulebook to answer question #1.

Arbitration Committee's Duty - The Arbitration Committee is bound to observe and apply the current USPSA Rules and to deliver a decision consistent with those rules. Where rules require interpretation or where an incident is not specifically covered by the rules, the Arbitration Committee will use their best judgment consistent with the intent of the rules. The Committee must confer with the MD before changing or removing a course of fire from the match.

 

The other questions are ones of opinion. I would say if a competitor doesn't have his gun and is now working the match, it is a judgement call on the part of the RM. If he lives an hour or two away, I'd probably say it's not 'refusing to reshoot'.

It sounds to me like the stages should have been tossed before arbitration, but........ it also sounds to me like it's very important to get this stuff right during the staff shoot so that situations like this dont happen.

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Sounds like a cluster f•€k of a match! The RM should have been on the ground before any shots fired. RM has no business talking about results as they have nothing to do with anything.

Arb committee acted prudently and not having gear to shoot a stage does not constitute refusal. "Uh no, I'm not reshooting the stage",, is refusal.

 

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shooter 13 did nothing wrong.

whoever changed the stage after it had been shot screwed up.

everyone else that shot the stage before it had been modified should have been told to re shoot the stage, not just the guy that figured out a way to shoot it differently.

everyone shooting the stage should get the same stage,,even if they didn't shoot it like shooter 13 did.

if the shooters refused to reshoot the stage, they would get a Zero for that stage.

scores have nothing to do with the rules.

was the RM certified?

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fair enough replies.

Everybody re-shooting is possible in the rules (not possible at this match) but so is the competitor whose actions led to the modification.  That's the RM's call and I think everybody agrees the decision shouldn't be based on results.

Question 4 &5

I know the committee will deliberate in private, and the appellant (me) can be asked to leave while others are questioned......

Does that mean I had a right to be there?

Does the RM have a role when the arbitration committee meets?

 

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competitor 13 that shot it followed the rules.

the stage should have been built better, it's not his fault.

who added the barrier?

was the barrier approved by the RM?

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I think the right decision was made.  13 shot it legally.  It should have been left as is, but since it was changed, throw it out or make everyone that shot it before the change reshoot.  Can't penalize a guy for leaving his gun at home when he is not expecting to shoot.

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