Jump to content
Brian Enos's Forums... Maku mozo!
Sign in to follow this  
mvslay

Rock Island 51738 Frustration!

Should I return for refund or risk a repair?  

7 members have voted

You do not have permission to vote in this poll, or see the poll results. Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

Recommended Posts

I bought a 51738 to shoot USPSA.  I received the pistol Monday.  I took it to the range on Tuesday.  I couldn't get through a single magazine without a fail to feed.  I tried the factory Mag and 4 other mags.  The bull barrel is poorly fit.  There is at least .008" side to side slop.  There is at least .012" slop top to bottom.  Both were measured with feeler gauges.  With the hammer down you can't feel the slop.  When the hammer back the barrel can be rattled easily.  The barrel link to slide stop fit is visibly loose also.

I've contacted Armscor and the best they can do is give me a 4-6 week window to get it back from the time they receive it.  Oh and that 4-6 week window is subject to change without notice.  All of the single stack guns I've seen of there have been excellent.  This one is not.  The dealer has offered to take the gun back and refund me.  But then I'm out an FFL fee and shipping both ways.  Or, I wait and maybe get a working pistol.  I'm really disappointed and frustrated.  To me a 4-6 week time frame tells me one of two things.  1 they are so over run with defective pistols they can't turn them around in a reasonable time frame.  Or, 2 they don't care enough about customer satisfaction to put a rework in front of the production guns and get them turned around.

I'm really leaning towards returning the gun and eating the shipping.  What do y'all think?  4-6 weeks is at least 2-3 matches, and 2-3 classifiers.  I know USPSA is just my hobby, but it's important to me.  Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be important to Armscor.  I'm not sure how long the offer for a refund is good for.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While I understand your frustration in getting a new firearm and having problems right out of the box, to say that 4-6 weeks means they do not care about customers or they have so many bad firearms, their staff is inundated with bad product is wrong on both points. 

4-6 weeks is not unheard of when returning a firearm for service. While Armscor sells a fair amount of guns, they do not have a large facility or staff. It actually is rather small, as they are really an Importer and not the manufacturer. 

If you cannot wait, then take it back for a refund. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You bought a budget 2011 and expect it to be fit like a custom gun. I think we have a problem with expectations here.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dropped off a customers SS 9 MM at their Payrump facility 2 years ago for a new slide stop. They have three gunsmith stations in the repair / warranty facility .4-6 weeks

was what they were quoting then.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IMHO I don't think having them do the repair would be a risk - other than the time it would take.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I say it should go back to the mothership.  Let them correct it.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/2/2016 at 9:10 PM, SCTaylor said:

You bought a budget 2011 and expect it to be fit like a custom gun. I think we have a problem with expectations here.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No I bought a budget gun and expected a fit similar to other guns that the company produces.  The barrel was free floating on the muzzle end and the breach end in battery with the hammer back.  I could fit a .012" feeler gauge between the barrel and slide.  It could not make it through a single magazine without a feed problem.  I have a comparably priced Kimber I've carried for 10 years and has a bull barrel.  It has an excellent barrel fit.  For whatever reason they totally missed the mark on this gun.

I expected a little slop in the slide, which it was better than expected.  I expected a trigger job (to include parts) would be needed.  It had about a 5.5 pound trigger.  That was within the advertised specs and easily dealt with.  But I did not expect it would require a new barrel to be fit just to make it function.

Another thing I noticed was the mag well.  The fit was excellent on the factory mag well.  What I didn't like was it looked like they added material to the bottom of the frame under the mainspring housing.  That means Dawson magwells for Para would require modifying the gun to fit.

The guide rod was also odd.  It had a slot milled in it to provide clearance for the barrel link.  I feel like the frame was milled to set the guide rod back slightly.  A weird set-up in my opinion.

I decided to return the gun to the retailer who has been awesome.  If I'm going to have to wait 4-6 weeks I'll just scrape some more up, go with an STI, and be happy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/2/2016 at 8:55 PM, PalmBeach1 said:

While I understand your frustration in getting a new firearm and having problems right out of the box, to say that 4-6 weeks means they do not care about customers or they have so many bad firearms, their staff is inundated with bad product is wrong on both points. 

4-6 weeks is not unheard of when returning a firearm for service. While Armscor sells a fair amount of guns, they do not have a large facility or staff. It actually is rather small, as they are really an Importer and not the manufacturer. 

If you cannot wait, then take it back for a refund. 

My expectations are probably a bit high.  I've been a technician for nearly 20 years.  I currently work in a field where I can get parts delivered to me overnight from nearly anywhere in the world if need be.  I've also been on the repair shop side of things.  Some repairs do take a considerable amount of time just because of parts or whatever.  And I am fully aware that I am an amateur shooter.  That being said, Armscor wouldn't even talk to me over the phone.  That was truly disappointing.

I was an Instrument tech many years ago.  It's a very similar trade to gun smithing.  We would always talk to a customer.  And we would always make sure the pro grade instruments got out in a timely fashion.

I realize the Rock Island is an entry level into double stack 1911's.  However, that gun is pretty much their flagship.  A little direct communication and expediency would have been appreciated.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have one of the first Rock Island's in 22 TCM. It had problems...Ok, so it was a tinkerer's gun. I sent it back for fix and re-fit and they gave me the same line of 4-6 weeks....And you know what? It was back, fixed in about 4 weeks. The gun has one of those forever warranties, didn't cost much and shoots ok. 

I bought a 2nd Target 22 tcm. This newer version has a Clark/Para ramped barrel. It runs flawlessly. I guess I just like the cartridge and the gun is good enough to plink and play with. The only fault I can find with the newer one is that I can't make a Briley bushing fit on it. The barrel is belled so severely at the muzzle that Briley's spherical ring doesn't fall on the highest part of the barrel...darn! I love those things too. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Shit man, you cannot compare a Kimber to a gun built in the Phillipines on a Caspian knock-off frame built by indig folks with hand files and sand paper.

 

You realize they cut the frame down to accommodate the magwell, right? That they did not add material.  

 

Regarding the feeding problem, what ammo were you running? They don't care for "factory" length rounds but run fine off ~1.18" loads.  I had one of these and ran it for about 800 rounds with one single problem.  It could also be a magazine issue, early on the factory mags needed a little tweaking.

 

With the feeler gauges, did you slide them between the TOP of the barrel & the slide, at the crown? Or where?

 

I realize I'm begin a dick but lets be honest, I'd bet $100 that gun could be running fine in an hour or so for less than it would cost to ship back to Armscor.  2011's in general are a beast if they a) are not built "right" b- a shade tree gunsmith goes to town on them and c) they are not run wet with lube (learned that first hand at a big match).  But for the cost of an RIA vs. an STI, it's worth the savings, to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The kimber I speak of is about about a $850 gun.  The 51738 was $850.  I happen to work with a lot of Filipino technicians at at my present job.  They are very detail oriented and generally some of the better mechanics and technicians we have.

 

If they cut the frame down to accommodate the Magwell that makes feel better about returning it.  My Para 14-45 has a Dawson Magwell that was a drop in that only needed minor blending.  I plan to swap the STI stock magwell for a dawson too.  Still my comment about making the frame incompatible with a dawson magwell is a negative. 

 

If the top of the barrel is 12 O'clock then I can tell you .012" at either 12 or 6 o'clock.  The guide rod bushing may have been under sized.  At 3 or 9 o'clock the measurement was like .008".  The Barrel link was also visibly oversized.  The breech end of the barrel was also loose in battery (probably due to the barrel link not positively locking it into battery).

 

I did get a follow up email from Armscor.  They offered to expedite the repair and were apologetic about not calling me back as requested.  However, the wheels are already in motion for the return.  The STI will be here some time between Thursday and Monday.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A.) I'd have asked for an exchange.

 

B.) STIs are not problem free pistols either.

 

It is bizarre that you have asked for advice, but allegedly ordered an STI anyway, before the RIA can even barely have looked at your .40? I'm confused about what appears to be nothing more than a Company slamming opp.. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whatever. You're pissed and already made a choice to crap on the RIA. F' it, I'm done.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think this one has run it's course...If anyone has anything new (and without attitude) to add, please PM a moderator and we'll see about re-opening it.

GrumpyOne BE Forums Moderator

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...