Moon clips or speed loaders?

[twister]

I've almost got my 686 ready to go for a PPC league I shoot in. The last decision is between moon clips or speed loaders? Each has it's own advantage I guess. To get started, it's $280 for moon clips, $170 for speed loaders, which way would you go? Thanks for your help, Dave.

[Brian B]

Hi Twister, It's all about the bullets. I shoot HBWC ( hollow base wad cutters = as used by all grand masters) in PPC loading with Safariland level 3 speed loaders. The long handle makes it easier to persuade (wiggle?) the flat faced ammo into the cylinder. Once all 6 bullets have started their voyage a quick push on the loader snaps them home. I have a fully decked out Smith 586 with a bull barrel, aristocrat sights, bobbed hammer, extended firing pin, springs and the magic of my gunsmith on the trigger. The course of fire in PPC usually allows a focused but not frantic use of time. There is reasonable time allowance to move from different positions while shooting and reloading: prone, kneeling, left barricade right barricade ext.

I use FMJ RN (FULL METAL JACKET ROUND NOSE) in a Smith 610 revolver for IPSC ( USPSA). I load them in TC Custom Moon Clips with a BT Mooner. My holster and magnetic Moon clip holders are from Double Alfa in the Netherlands. The Smith 610 makes Major with 180 grain FMJ RN .40 cal. The hard round nose makes it super fast to load and unload.

PPC emphasises accuracy and not speed and power whereas IPSC (USPSA) includes all three.

If you are going to participate in PPC, using HBWC bullets is my recommendation; loading with the Safariland Level 3 speed loaders. Some shooters prefer SWC ( Semi-Wad Cutters). There is no benefit using Moon Clips to load this ammo. There are I believe several disadvantages. Besides missing out on the useful handle of the Safariland level 3 loaders; sitting, kneeling and lying down on discharged Moon Clips can be painful. It will also be expensive to replace whichever you bend. Happy shooting!


Brian B

[AzShooter]

For PPC  where you are not worried about speed I would use Safariland Comp IIIs.  One thing I absolutely hate about my moon clips for my 929 is having to load them all and then unload them when I'm done.  With the Speed Loaders use a loading block and then when you are done you simply put your brass in your bucket and they are ready to be cleaned and reloaded.

[Screwball]

One thing I absolutely hate about my moon clips for my 929 is having to load them all and then unload them when I'm done.

http://www.bmtequipped.com/about.php

I feel this is one of the easiest to operate tools for loading/unloading moon clips. Cost a little bit, though.

[toothguy]

7 hours ago, AzShooter said:

For PPC  where you are not worried about speed I would use Safariland Comp IIIs.  One thing I absolutely hate about my moon clips for my 929 is having to load them all and then unload them when I'm done.  With the Speed Loaders use a loading block and then when you are done you simply put your brass in your bucket and they are ready to be cleaned and reloaded.

A few of the guys I shot with made curved, wood shooting trays that bolted to the inside of the bucket.  Pretty handy, everthing starts and ends up inside the bucket.

[AzShooter]

3 hours ago, Screwball said:

 

http://www.bmtequipped.com/about.php

I feel this is one of the easiest to operate tools for loading/unloading moon clips. Cost a little bit, though.

 

I have one and use it to unload some of my moon clips but it won't work for me on my TKCustom.  They are too tight since I have Parkinsons and Arthritis my hands don't have the straight for this tool.  I have to unload them singularly.

But the tool does work great.

[twister]

I'm curious, how much bullet do you have sticking out of a comp 3 speed loaders, if you're using 148gr. hbwc? Thanks for all the help so far, Dave.

Edited August 27, 2016 by twister

[pskys2]

The biggest advantage of Moonclips is in ejecting the empties, no more having one slip under the extractor.

The down side is having to load/unload moonclips.

If you're only going to shoot PPC, cheaper and easier would be speedloaders and you give up nothing in competive advantage.  You'd also be competitive for NRA Action Pistol and IDPA.

A 686 wouldn't be optimum for USPSA with or without moonclips.

If you do go with moonclips, check with Hearthco, on this forum.  In 38's you can get .025 and they'll work with "almost anything" or .035 and use only Starline Brass and there will be no wiggle. Just don't get the factory or the cheapest they're virtually worthless.

Edited August 28, 2016 by pskys2

[Tom E]

If you're shooting full wad cutters I think they go into the chambers better/easier with speedloaders. You do have to be more careful getting them all ejected and not hung up. I shoot a 6" 14-7.and use Jet Loaders. They're a better Comp III.  

[COF]

On August 27, 2016 at 0:56 AM, Brian B said:

I use FMJ RN (FULL METAL JACKET ROUND NOSE) in a Smith 610 revolver for IPSC ( USPSA

Brian B

What bullet are you using? That was always the hardest thing - finding a .40 jacketed pointy round nose bullet in 180 or 200 grain.

[AusPPC]

For PPC speed loaders are preferable, the timing isn't so fast to require lighting reloads, and most tend to run lighter actions (than you would say IPSC) which work better without the headspacing irregularities some times caused by moonclips.

[Brian B]

I'm curious, how much bullet do you have sticking out of a comp 3 speed loaders, if you're using 148gr. hbwc? Thanks for all the help so far, Dave.

Zero. The HBWC (Hollow Based Wad Cutter) bullet is seated completely flush with the mouth of the cartridge case. The perfectly flat face of the bullet cuts a crisp round circle in the target. Winning scores are sometimes called using a micrometer template to determine if the shot cut into the scoring line. The Hollow Base permits the gas to force the outer walls of the bullet out into the barrel grooves which promotes extreme accuracy.
If you are asking how the Safariland Comp III speed loaders work with the HBWC ammo they are just fine. I know about 45 shooters in our PPC league using this setup. Only a few use SWC38special. No one uses moon clips. The 38 special case is 1.155 inches long and the case is held in the SpeedLoader to a depth of about .25 inch. Therefore there is .905 of an inch of casing extending out from the reloader. This is more than ample to get er gone.

[Brian B]

http://www.bmtequipped.com/about.php

I feel this is one of the easiest to operate tools for loading/unloading moon clips. Cost a little bit, though.

When loading the moon clips you can use wide pliers to squeeze ammo in ( bending lots of clips), snap them in using your fingers (bleeding from deep cuts into your knuckles) or try the Arbor style spring loaded plier ( which is accurate and extremely slow, my spring broke after about 30 min.)
When unloading the moon clips the two options are pulling them manually or a copper pipe with an edge ground into it enabling a twist to remove (that twist often bends the arm of the clip holding the casing) A nice screwdriver with a pipe is available which has the same risk of damage.
All of the above has been my experience until I bought my first BTMooner . I can load 30 rounds into 5 moon clips faster than I can load 3 ten round mags! I can unload a moon clip in less than two seconds and the casings fall neatly into my bag. All this is done at a casual pace, the BTMOONER is that efficient. I no longer destroy expensive competition moon clips. They have paid for themselves many time over as well as saving me hours at the loading bench. I have three units one each for my S&W610, S&W627 and one for my new Ruger RedHawk 45 ACP/Colt model 5032.

[twister]

Brian B, thanks for the help, you answered my question.