birdo Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 So I have a 1301 issue that I have not been able to find mention of online. The lifter "locks" on me, when it should not be doing so. Sometimes with a round in the chamber (though not always), sometimes with rounds in the tube (though not always). The other symptoms here: Shell Release button is hard to press when this happens, much harder than it normally is. If I press the bolt release (in the normal bolt release "direction"), it will "unlock" the lifter, which I suppose is expected. Here is the recreation of it. Note that in this example it only did it on the last round (tube was empty, one was in the chamber), but that is not always the case. This has happened after one shot with a full tube: Recreation of issue Here is what *may* be a possible related side-effect or cause: Side-effect? Has anyone seen this? What I have done wrong (I am sure that this is user-created). Along those lines, the gun has had only minimal modifications: Loading port hogged out +4 round Nordic tube/spring Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New4John Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 I wouldn't be so sure it's user induced. I had the exact same problem. I fought it for months, tried other lifters, every ammo you could imagine. No rhyme or reason to it when or if it would lock up. I, and others, threw everything but the kitchen sink at it. I took trigger groups out of 3 different 1301's, and it ran flawlessly with all of them. Now ironically, those other guns ran fine with my trigger group installed too. If you know someone else with a 1301, try their TG and see if you can get it to replicate. Weirdest ghost I ever chased and still really don't understand. I ended up purchasing an entire new trigger group and that resolved it once and for all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdo Posted August 22, 2016 Author Share Posted August 22, 2016 Thank you, I do indeed know another shooter here using the 1301, and I will use his trigger group to troubleshoot. I was leaning towards the problem being related to the trigger group actually, because of that shell release button being so hard to push when the issue crops up. I bet that thing is binding somehow, someway... Good first step in troubleshooting, thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdo Posted August 22, 2016 Author Share Posted August 22, 2016 So I broke the trigger group completely down (which was "fun"), pretended to clean/fix it (no problems were apparent, though I am not sure I would know what to look for), and re-assembled it (which was even more "fun"). I would recommend this procedure to no one. Unless you don't like me, then you should definitely try it! Apparently my mock-fixing, combined with the names that I called it, did the trick. It's now functioning normally, without live-fire testing yet. So I will test that at the range this week, fingers crossed. Maybe a spring was bound up, or something was out of place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadeslade Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 Nice videos. Yeah, dismantling the 1301 is tedious and time consuming. Similar to Benelli M1 and M2 trigger groups. Lots of specs and tolerances there. I have seen this with dirty gun, reassembled gun after cleaning, and it just happens. I recommend exactly what you did (you will end up buying some of those small parts ) and then smoothing all opposing surfaces on carrier and shell catch, and "rounding/smoothing" all sharp edges on carrier catch plunger and shell catch, and cutting a few coils off carrier spring. Sometimes a piece of brass or wood can get the carrier catch mechanism. I use 600/1500 sandpaper and Dremel buffing compound with buffing insert on Dremel. You seemed to have gotten it fixed, but you will be taking that apart a bunch more times! DVC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdo Posted August 26, 2016 Author Share Posted August 26, 2016 Just a quick update, I am still having this issue (occurred on the 3rd shot during testing). I have a match this weekend and haven't had time to get a hold of Beretta, but I will do so Monday and let you all know what happens. Monday I will also rip apart the trigger group again and post pictures of the parts, see if anyone can notice any sharp edges or machine marks that may be the culprit. Stay tuned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunCat Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 I saw New4John's 1301 a couple of times while we were chasing this demon. Somewhere between a new trigger group and a new lifter his problem (knock on wood) went away. The weird thing is I put his lifter on my personal 1301and it has never had an issue. I suspect an issue with the specific geometry of the lifter, cartridge latch and carrier catch plunger (#83 on the Brownells schematic) but I can't pinpoint the exact culprit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve O'Connell Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 Stacking tolerances? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flannigun Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 I have friend who had a similar issue with a Beretta Teknys. It was the pin that holds the trigger group in being too tight, or possibly slightly bent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldJohn Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 Glad to see I'm not the only one with Beretta issues:) I can't even get mine re-assembled! Never fired the damn thing. OldJohn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nagantino Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 Birds, just reading this. Did you ever solve this problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunCat Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 (edited) I've since had in another problem 1301. These picture show some damage to the lifter and release that would allow the lifter to drop too low and let the shell latch to pivot out and lock the lifter. A new lifter and release button fixed the issue. Edited May 21, 2017 by GunCat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdo Posted May 21, 2017 Author Share Posted May 21, 2017 Unfortunately, I have not had (or taken, more accurately) the time to contact Beretta on this one, so my issue is still present. Interesting Steve. I will have to check mine when I am home to see if any similar damage is present that may be causing my issue. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunCat Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 31 minutes ago, birdo said: Unfortunately, I have not had (or taken, more accurately) the time to contact Beretta on this one, so my issue is still present. Interesting Steve. I will have to check mine when I am home to see if any similar damage is present that may be causing my issue. Thanks! Open/close the bolt briskly by hand while watching the the lifter move up/down. On the last problem gun the lifter would lock up about every 5-6 cycles if I cycled the bolt hard enough. (never did lock when cycling the bolt gently) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stumpyv8 Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 We had this problem on a gun a little while ago...... As the group is only held in with 1 pin, if the tolerances are out, the trigger group can pivot on the pin. If it pivots too far forward, the lifter pops out from under the shell catch & locks the mechanism. The fix is to increase the material at the rear edge to stop the trigger group pivoting too far This isn't mine but it explains it well. With the added bonus of having it described in an awesome Irish accenthttp://www.practical-shotgun.com/beretta-1301-double-feeds-carrier-lock-ups Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdo Posted August 9, 2017 Author Share Posted August 9, 2017 On 5/24/2017 at 5:24 AM, stumpyv8 said: We had this problem on a gun a little while ago...... As the group is only held in with 1 pin, if the tolerances are out, the trigger group can pivot on the pin. If it pivots too far forward, the lifter pops out from under the shell catch & locks the mechanism. The fix is to increase the material at the rear edge to stop the trigger group pivoting too far This isn't mine but it explains it well. With the added bonus of having it described in an awesome Irish accenthttp://www.practical-shotgun.com/beretta-1301-double-feeds-carrier-lock-ups Thank you Stumpy, I finally had a chance to spend some time on the gun, and this indeed was the issue. I have put the temporary fix in place (cardboard on the rear TG shelf to tighten it up), until I can test it further, but it's not locking up when racking it now when it previously was just about every time. And Steve, it seems that mine has not had enough rounds through it to cause the type of damage that you showed there, the only thing I am seeing is a small gouge in the tube release button itself. No damage on the lifter groove like you were seeing there. Thank you all for the help on this one, saved me a ton of time and money. Much appreciated! Tony D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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