Your choice of rank

[Speedsouthshooting]

I see a lot of folks racing to the next higher class. Most guys I know don't want M classification. So I guess I'm asking,,, would you rather be a "top shooter"  in A class or at the bottom of the totem pole in M class?

[aandabooks]

I just want to be able to shoot consistantly to the level of whatever class I'm in.  I'm currently a "B" shooter and some matches i might as well be a newbie at my first match and get beat by C/D shooters.  Other matches I'm finishing better than other B shooters and better than a few A shooters.. 

[jkrispies]

I demand of myself to be the best shooter I can be, which means always striving to the next goal, and that may be the next higher rank or whatever skill I'm working on at that moment. The folks who "don't want to be higher than X" are simply sandbagging to do better at the prize table.  Personally, I'd rather maintain my self-respect even if it means losing money in prizes.  I expect myself to perform to my potential every time I step into the shooter's box, period.  

Now, having said that, I will concede that in USPSA, practicing to be an amazing classifier shooter can be different than practicing to be an amazing "real running and gunning stages" shooter.  If somebody's classification lags behind their ability for that reason, I do get it.  By that same token, a guy who is an M in classifiers only but can't handle a real stage is going to come off kinda silly. 

My point is, anybody who INTENTIONALLY sandbags doesn't deserve kudos in my book. 

Edited August 18, 2016 by jkrispies

[Jake Di Vita]

Personally, I've never had any use for classes. Even when I was C class in Production I only cared about winning the division.

[jkrispies]

8 minutes ago, Jake Di Vita said:

Personally, I've never had any use for classes. Even when I was C class in Production I only cared about winning the division.

Agreed.  I do see a real value in classification as a data point to track growth, as well as employing it as a personal motivator if that's your thing, but using it to claim "I won 1st in D!!!" makes no sense to me at all.  There's only one winner per division. 

[aandabooks]

46 minutes ago, jkrispies said:

Agreed.  I do see a real value in classification as a data point to track growth, as well as employing it as a personal motivator if that's your thing, but using it to claim "I won 1st in D!!!" makes no sense to me at all.  There's only one winner per division. 

Agree there.  

[tanks]

52 minutes ago, jkrispies said:

Agreed.  I do see a real value in classification as a data point to track growth, as well as employing it as a personal motivator if that's your thing, but using it to claim "I won 1st in D!!!" makes no sense to me at all.  There's only one winner per division. 

Interesting. Last match I was at I noticed a "C" shooter that did well overall and also in Limited (his division). He was 15th overall out of 55 and 6th in Limited out of 19. He won "C" class by a huge margin, and beat all but 2 of the "B" shooters . So, I looked at individual stage scores. He placed between 3rd and 5th in every stage except the classifier where he placed 16th out of 19th due to a Mike, the only stage where he did not win his class. Coincidence?

[Speedsouthshooting]

Reason why I ask is I have friends that seemed bummed when they reclass upwards.

[Speedsouthshooting]

I'm thinking "that's awesome! Congrats! 

 

[zzw26n]

14 hours ago, tanks said:

Interesting. Last match I was at I noticed a "C" shooter that did well overall and also in Limited (his division). He was 15th overall out of 55 and 6th in Limited out of 19. He won "C" class by a huge margin, and beat all but 2 of the "B" shooters . So, I looked at individual stage scores. He placed between 3rd and 5th in every stage except the classifier where he placed 16th out of 19th due to a Mike, the only stage where he did not win his class. Coincidence?

looks like sandbagging to me.

[Hi-Power Jack]

18 hours ago, tanks said:

He placed between 3rd and 5th in every stage except the classifier where he placed 16th out of 19th due to a Mike, the only stage where he did not win his class. Coincidence?

We all know someone just like him ...

[jkrispies]

33 minutes ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

We all know someone just like him ...

Or 10...

[blaster113]

My goal is to get promoted to the next class and be able to shoot consistently within that group's percentage.  Have an A card now, I'd rather be the last place M vs 1st place A if I can shoot M class scores.

 

[wtturn]

I want to win my division overall. Could not care any less what letter is beside my name on the results list, only that my name is at the top of the list.

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[Kraj]

If i never move up in classification again it wouldn't bother me. As long as im getting better and on my best day I can beat anyone else on their best day ill be D class for life.

[p7fl]

Dump rankings.

We have scores-they tell you in absolute terms who is the best that day, overall and in the stage.

Classifications and division winners are participation non sense.

[tanks]

1 hour ago, p7fl said:

Dump rankings.

We have scores-they tell you in absolute terms who is the best that day, overall and in the stage.

Classifications and division winners are participation non sense.

I agree that part of the classification has to do with participation. If someone is competing against people at GM level as a beginner day in and they out, they'd be discouraged. Also,  there is no consistency from match to match. Someone winning local matches might be lulled into a false sense of accomplishment due to lack of competition locally or easy stage designs. I think classification system gives one a good sense of one's overall basic skill level nationally, and it also breaks down the task of improving into small measurable chunks (D->C->B->A->M->GM). No, it doesn't measure all match skills and that is what Level 2+ matches are for.

In regards to division distinction, that absolutely makes sense. A guy reloading 4-5 times a stage, dealing with recoil and shooting iron sights will be at a great disadvantage compared to someone shooting a compensated firearm with optics and not having to reload more than once.

[Shepard]

From D through A I like the class rankings. It gives people something to strive for but I think Master and Grandmaster should be only be awarded by shooting into that class at area matches or nationals. Maybe I watched too much Kung Fu Theater as a kid but I think if you're going to wear the title Master you should be able to bring it against other Masters at the match. 

[Nimitz]

If MDs would stop offering awards for class wins/2nd place, etc sandbagging would disappear overnight .... Division and special catagory awards only ......

[motosapiens]

1 hour ago, Nimitz said:

If MDs would stop offering awards for class wins/2nd place, etc sandbagging would disappear overnight .... Division and special catagory awards only ......

word. the classification system is useful as a motivational carrot, and also useful for getting a general idea of how you did against shooters you don't know or don't shoot against regularly, but trying to 'win' B class or whatever is just retarded imho, and only a hindrance to getting better. I am excited to move up in classification because it means I am getting better.

[MikeBurgess]

Just wish you could enter as a classification above what uspsa has you at.
I felt bad at a recent L2 match because I had to enter as a C in Single Stack, I shoot at a high B level in Lim, Prod and Open and it just didn't feel right winning C by 12%. It's not like different guns change the level of your shooting ability.

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[aandabooks]

13 minutes ago, MikeBurgess said:

Just wish you could enter as a classification above what uspsa has you at.
I felt bad at a recent L2 match because I had to enter as a C in Single Stack, I shoot at a high B level in Lim, Prod and Open and it just didn't feel right winning C by 12%. It's not like different guns change the level of your shooting ability.

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The exception to that would be revolver, imo.  Reloads are so much different that the skills don't really transfer.

[motosapiens]

2 hours ago, MikeBurgess said:

Just wish you could enter as a classification above what uspsa has you at.
I felt bad at a recent L2 match because I had to enter as a C in Single Stack, I shoot at a high B level in Lim, Prod and Open and it just didn't feel right winning C by 12%. It's not like different guns change the level of your shooting ability.

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You *should* feel bad,   but the thing is you didn't 'win' c class, you just got a special olympics award to make you feel better (which to your credit appears to be something you don't actually need) for not shooting SS enough to get classified closer to your actual ability. Thanks for working that recent L2 match btw. Your stage was very professionally run (as were most of the other stages at that match).

[MikeBurgess]

You *should* feel bad, [emoji6]  but the thing is you didn't 'win' c class, you just got a special olympics award to make you feel better (which to your credit appears to be something you don't actually need) for not shooting SS enough to get classified closer to your actual ability. Thanks for working that recent L2 match btw. Your stage was very professionally run (as were most of the other stages at that match).

Thanks, but what I should feel bad about is not getting my load worked out before the match and going minor at Chrono, I shot way too many Cs and Ds for minor.


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[MikeBurgess]

The exception to that would be revolver, imo.  Reloads are so much different that the skills don't really transfer.

I can almost agree with revolver being different but it doesn't shown in my shooting and there are never enough revolver shooters for class to even come up.

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