Reload angle

[SlvrDragon50]

So I have been reading a bit on reloads, and one thing that I never really thought much about was trying to match your magwell to the angle that your mag is coming up from.

I've been having a bit of challenge with this, partly due to I think I was reloading the gun too low resulting in the mag coming in from above. However, I started wondering if maybe I need to be more conscious about the angle I'm pulling the mag out at. Should I be training myself to be more consistent in my mag pulling which will follow with a more consistent magwell tilt or should I just let the mag pulls be natural and train the magwell to follow the mags?

Or am I just thinking too much about this.

[perttime]

What do you mean by "pulling the mag out"?

The old mag should drop out of the pistol by just pressing the mag release.

For getting the pistol in good place for inserting the new mag, the advice from Brian's book seems to work well enough: pull the gun back towards your chest, and let it rotate until you can see a short distance into the magwell. Then, you can see to point the mag there with your index finger.

[Hi-Power Jack]

+1. ^^^^ Pertime hit it on the head.

[rhett45acp]

I think the OP means pulling the new mag out of the pouch. To let it come out naturally and match the angle of the magwell to where the new mag in weak hand meets the magwell. ???

I was taught to pull the gun in a bit towards the chest and look the mag into the gun. Now I see the trend to leave the gun out as much as possible to return to engaging targets ASAP.

Personally, if wasted movement is eliminated, its fast and feels good, then G2G.

[johnbu]

I'm still "perfecting" reloads. But, the act of grasping the new mag CORRECTLY seems to make the most improvement. When a reload is flubbed, I try to evaluate why. Mostly, it was grabbing the new mag inconsistently. Training focus is now on doing it mechanically perfectly over fast. Fast, but wrong....isn't fast. (Duh! Why wasn't I told this sooner? Lol)

Next was the gun angle. I need to bend the wrist around and turned to get the well aimed to where I can see the opening and have the insertion direction the same as the mag. The hand motion is like making a fist and looking at the bottom of the pinky. Again, trying to be mechanically perfect.

Edited August 8, 2016 by johnbu

[SlvrDragon50]

I am definitely having trouble getting a good grasp on my mag partly due to my hands getting super sweaty. Whenever I grab the mag, my fingers tend to just slip until I grasp the base plate, and I have the super thin OEM CZ steel base plate.

Unfortunately, I just found out that I can't even install bigger base plates on my mags because it'd put my gun over the weight limit!

I guess my confusion is that I see JJ Racaza practicing his reloads, and he actually reloads his gun pretty low compared to other Youtube videos I've seen. Perhaps it was just because it was recorded from a low angle. I think I'll try getting my gun position consistently in the same spot then bring the mag to the gun!

[perttime]

... Whenever I grab the mag, my fingers tend to just slip until I grasp the base plate, and I have the super thin OEM CZ steel base plate. ...

That sounds a little strange. Are your mag pouches gripping the mags too hard?

How are you gripping the mags?

For most, it seems natural to drop the weak hand from the gun to belly level, with the wrist straight, and grasp the mag so that the index finger ends up on - or just below - the first bullet, and the mag base is somewhere in the middle of the palm.

[Jake Di Vita]

JJ's method works great for him. For everyone that isn't JJ I recommend they reload higher with the gun close to being in front of the face. I think a lot of really great shooters use mechanics that are less than ideal, but they make it work for them because of the thousands of hours they put into it. Just because a shooter you admire does it a certain way, don't force yourself into doing it the same way. If I was going to pick a top shooter's reload for the masses to emulate, it would be Tomasie without a doubt.

As far as the slippery hands....pro grip and practice. Once your level of skill increases sufficiently, the sweaty hands will be much less of an issue.

Edited August 8, 2016 by Jake Di Vita

[SlvrDragon50]

JJ's method works great for him. For everyone that isn't JJ I recommend they reload higher with the gun close to being in front of the face. I think a lot of really great shooters use mechanics that are less than ideal, but they make it work for them because of the thousands of hours they put into it. Just because a shooter you admire does it a certain way, don't force yourself into doing it the same way. If I was going to pick a top shooter's reload for the masses to emulate, it would be Tomasie without a doubt.

Thanks! I'll keep rewatch Tomasie's reload video.

... Whenever I grab the mag, my fingers tend to just slip until I grasp the base plate, and I have the super thin OEM CZ steel base plate. ...

That sounds a little strange. Are your mag pouches gripping the mags too hard?

How are you gripping the mags?

For most, it seems natural to drop the weak hand from the gun to belly level, with the wrist straight, and grasp the mag so that the index finger ends up on - or just below - the first bullet, and the mag base is somewhere in the middle of the palm.

Haha, so when I say my hands sweat... I mean they are like really quite wet. I have trouble gripping with my weakhand as a result.

I have DAA Racers, and the adjustment screw is backed out all the way already. I may have to revisit how I am doing the inital grab, but what is happening is I pull on the mag, but my hands are usually too slick, and I can only grab the mag when I grab an edge of the mag. I'm pretty sure it is sweat related because my mag reloads are a lot better when I start fresh vs after doing 15-20 of them.

[Jake Di Vita]

There are certain medical issues that cause an overabundance of sweating, sometimes in specific areas. It might be prudent to be screened for anything that could be causing the problem.

[Hi-Power Jack]

I have sweaty hands also - and it does interfere with a good weak hand grip.

I've been thinking about a thin (golf?) glove on my left hand - might help

[js1130146]

Fwiw I have the single stack racers and didn't like how firm the retention was on them even with the screw backed out. I removed material from the insides to obtain a looser fit. I can always tighten them back up as needed.

[BeerBaron]

JJ's method works great for him. For everyone that isn't JJ I recommend they reload higher with the gun close to being in front of the face. I think a lot of really great shooters use mechanics that are less than ideal, but they make it work for them because of the thousands of hours they put into it. Just because a shooter you admire does it a certain way, don't force yourself into doing it the same way. If I was going to pick a top shooter's reload for the masses to emulate, it would be Tomasie without a doubt.

As far as the slippery hands....pro grip and practice. Once your level of skill increases sufficiently, the sweaty hands will be much less of an issue.

+1. Ben Stoeger seems to reload with the gun pretty low too. for the rest of us mortals I can see that it seems faster to keep the gun up. in fact whether I'm clearing a malfunction, racking the gun on an unloaded start, or changing mag I basically want to keep the gun up in my 'work space' this is basically at the top of my chest height (maybe boob height) and approx 10 inches off my chest (basically the gun is about half way from my body to my fully extended shooting position). That keeps things consistent and minimises the time. same thing when I come off target to run to another part of the stage. Keep the gun up nice and high. For some reason new shooters seem to want to let it drop down to waist height at which point they tend to loose a lot of muzzle discipline and it just kind of flops around down there.

if you have really sweaty handy try some grip lotion, or at the very least wipe your hands dry on a small towel (or back of your pants) before a stage attempt.

[SlvrDragon50]

I need to record myself reloading, but I've noticed that when I reload the gun, I have a tendency to flick the gun down to push the old mag out even though it falls free anyways.

I do wonder if limb lengths plays a factor in this in identifying how low you bring down the gun to meet the fresh mag. This is the inner scientist in me coming out wanting to study all the top shooters Haha.

[Jake Di Vita]

I need to record myself reloading, but I've noticed that when I reload the gun, I have a tendency to flick the gun down to push the old mag out even though it falls free anyways.

May or may not be an issue. I'd have to see it to be sure.

I do wonder if limb lengths plays a factor in this in identifying how low you bring down the gun to meet the fresh mag. This is the inner scientist in me coming out wanting to study all the top shooters Haha.

I don't think limb length matters at all for reloading.

JJ brings his gun down and can do .7s, I keep my gun highish and can do .7s. Execution is always more important than method, I just think most people are better served by keeping the gun higher.

[CHA-LEE]

To reload fast you need to leverage an aggressive "slapping" motion of the support hand to get the next mag off of your belt and up to the gun as quickly as possible. When you are moving your support hand at a high velocity down to the belt then back up to the gun you are really at the mercy of the trajectory of the magazine as its coming back up. If you are slapping aggressively enough there is no time to "Steer" the magazine into the gun or change its path of movement or angle much. This means that you need to figure out the position of the gun so it can receive the magazine as its coming up in the normal path of its trajectory.

A lot of people try to pick an arbitrary gun position to receive the next magazine then try force the trajectory of the magazine to meet the position of the gun. This is wrong. You need to first figure out the trajectory of the magazine first as you slap down to it and bring it back up aggressively. Then use the magazines average trajectory to determine the position and angle of the gun so it can receive the magazine with very minimal deviation needed in the aggressive slapping hand motion.

I prefer to keep the gun high during the reload for two primary reasons. The first is that it is the most consistent location to receive the high velocity magazine. Second, it keeps me from tilting my head down during the reload process. Keeping from tilting your head down my seem very subtle but its very important because it allows you to change directions and move around aggressively. The vast majority of the time we are performing a reload as we are exiting a shooting position so we need to maintain a head position that allows us to really haul ass when we need to. If you tilt your head down it dramatically reduces your ability to move around aggressively.

[SlvrDragon50]

To reload fast you need to leverage an aggressive "slapping" motion of the support hand to get the next mag off of your belt and up to the gun as quickly as possible. When you are moving your support hand at a high velocity down to the belt then back up to the gun you are really at the mercy of the trajectory of the magazine as its coming back up. If you are slapping aggressively enough there is no time to "Steer" the magazine into the gun or change its path of movement or angle much. This means that you need to figure out the position of the gun so it can receive the magazine as its coming up in the normal path of its trajectory.

A lot of people try to pick an arbitrary gun position to receive the next magazine then try force the trajectory of the magazine to meet the position of the gun. This is wrong. You need to first figure out the trajectory of the magazine first as you slap down to it and bring it back up aggressively. Then use the magazines average trajectory to determine the position and angle of the gun so it can receive the magazine with very minimal deviation needed in the aggressive slapping hand motion.

I prefer to keep the gun high during the reload for two primary reasons. The first is that it is the most consistent location to receive the high velocity magazine. Second, it keeps me from tilting my head down during the reload process. Keeping from tilting your head down my seem very subtle but its very important because it allows you to change directions and move around aggressively. The vast majority of the time we are performing a reload as we are exiting a shooting position so we need to maintain a head position that allows us to really haul ass when we need to. If you tilt your head down it dramatically reduces your ability to move around aggressively.

Thank you! Excellent post. This is exactly what I'm looking for. Will modify my training habits and hopefully good results follow.

[Hi-Power Jack]

figure out the trajectory of the magazine as you bring it up aggressively. Then use the magazines average trajectory to determine the position and angle of the gun so it can receive the magazine

WOW ...

Great analysis - thanks

[Fergus]

I started shooting single stack this summer and in doing I had to change or maybe I should say tweak my technique a bit. While I tend to keep the gun relatively high and in my workspace, I closed my eye's to find my "natural" point at which mag and hands meet - kind of like finding your natural point of aim / stance. I found that:

--- I could reload just as fast with my eyes closed as I do with them open [1.4-1.5seconds] but in keeping my eyes closed my hands slowed naturally to slide the mag into the gun.

--- If I kept my eyes open I really needed to look into the magwell to get the "best /smooth" reload. [If I just looked at the gun then reloads were not very good]

So experimenting is good and leads to some interesting findings. I'm not sure how I'm going to use the reload with my eyes closed yet but I do believe that it could be useful.  

Edited August 22, 2016 by Fergus

[Glock26Toter]

When Cha-Lee explained this to me years ago it was a game changer for my reloads.  My take-away was that all the real work in reloading is done with your weak hand, and not the gun hand.   The gun hand will figure out what to do without much effort. 

Also as far as keeping the gun high... I don't feel that there's some magic height or formula for how high to keep it.  If dropping it a bit is the natural place to meet the mag than so be it.   Smooth and consistent is more important than a height measurement.  (you'll find that it's quite high if you are performing the "slap down" Cha-Lee explains.)

One last thought. For me the best drill to help sink all this in is partial insertion drills.  Bring the mag just to the mag well mouth and don't do the complete reload.  This helps reinforce the act of looking right at the reload and creates a very slight pause to ensure all is lined up.  Don't worry, that pause will all but disappear at match time... but the consistency won't.  

[FTDMFR]

You need to first figure out the trajectory of the magazine first as you slap down to it and bring it back up aggressively. Then use the magazines average trajectory to determine the position and angle of the gun so it can receive the magazine...

Stegger gave me this advice in a class, and it pretty much fixed my reload problems.

Also, one thing I found that seriously affects the repeatability of how I present the mag to the gun is the amount of friction between my index finger and the outside of the mag pouch.

I've started putting a light coating of silicone lube on the outside of my mag pouches (and holster) and it helps a ton.