Bad accuracy with diff powders

[a matt]

Ok, I get that some gun shoot better with certain powders over others. Well I think this maybe different? My gun shoots better than its owner, as most do. I can shoot off a bench at 20 to 25 yards and have the bullet holes touching or at the least under an inch and that's more than most USPSA shooters will need or at least me. Now this is only with 3n38 I tried Autocomp, HS-6, True Blue, Bullseye, CFE pistol and Silhouette and I get super inconsistent groups and/or keyholes. I have tried bullets that work great in my friends gun and same results. My ammo wasn't making power at the Open a few years back so I used a friends 3n38 and his bullets and they shot great. I have tried no crimp, a little crimp all the usual suspects. Also when I let my friend shoot my bullets with 3n38 he encountered the issues I was having with his bullets? I dont put much stock in this cause I haven't tried to make my bullets run in his gun other than just here try these. I do have a slightly higher round count on my gun around 40k plus but I have had 2 competent gunsmiths check my barrel and both have said the rifling is really good and is shoots fine with the rounds i sent with it, so they said I don't need the change my barrel. Now I am down almost to one last case of 3n38 and I wanted something that was less than $110 to $115 plus shipping and HasMat for 4lbs that only last only a few months anyway @ 10.5 gr. per. Have any other open shooters ever noticed or heard of this happening with an open gun or any gun for that matter? Thanks for your time..

Edited July 29, 2016 by a matt

[al503]

Just an observation: 3n38 is on the very slow side of the pistol powders. The others (depending on which burn rate chart you look at, of course) are faster powders. I would try something like AA7, which is very slow but also much cheaper than 3n38.

[a matt]

I can do that, thank you. Oh and I tried WSF on a tip from Max Sr. Now that power was the worst for accuracy. Smh

[M1A4ME]

I like slow burning powders. My best 9MM load is a 115 grain hollow point over 8.0 grains of Blue Dot. It's a compressed load but the groups are nice. According to the reloading data, it's still not a max. pressure load but the velocity (shown in the reloading data) is pretty fast, too.

[thompsoncustom]

What bullets are you running? What is the bullet diameter? What does your barrel slug at?

[a matt]

My bullets are 38 super TCJ .356 dia. No Slugging. I think Al503 & M1A4ME have good points I'll check out AA#7 and some Blue Dot and like slower powders and see how things go. Great help here, thank you all for you imput. Cheers... Oh I forgot, N350 shot great also.

Edited July 29, 2016 by a matt

[gerritm]

My DVC 38 super open shoots very accurate with .355 124's using PD & Everglade JHP 8.5gr of HS-6 1.235 OAL. Zero @ 20 yards inside a quarter. Never had a need to try .356.

gerritm

[thompsoncustom]

Just throughing this out there. But maybe the reason why slow powders are working good and fast powders arent has to due to the barrel/ bullet diameter. As many rounds as you have through that barrel your rifling could be barely gripping the bullets and when spun faster by the quicker powders it could be losing some of its grip kind of like when you overdrive a lead alloy and twist the rifling off the bullet.

I have no idea if thats whats going on but you could always try some .357 bullets with the faster powders and see if that cures things.

[Hi-Power Jack]

I tried Autocomp, HS-6, True Blue, Bullseye, CFE pistol and Silhouette and I get super inconsistent groups and/or keyholes

How big a group is "super inconsistent"?

BTW, 1" groups at 20 yards is GREAT

[a matt]

What it's bad it's 6 out of 10 ROUNDS on a uspsa target @ 15yds BAD...

[Hi-Power Jack]

Is that slow fire ? Missing 40% on a uspsa target at 15 yards?

[rdinga]

Are you using plated bullets?

[N3WWN]

What it's bad it's 6 out of 10 ROUNDS on a uspsa target @ 15yds BAD...

My 9mm 1911 Commander "groups" like this with any 115gr or 124gr rounds... factory or handload. Tried several different powders for the handloads, too, with little to no improvement.

I was able to tighten the group to about 6" - 6.5" @ 20 yds by upping the bullet weight to 147gr and using a slower powder (Blue Dot).

Still not happy with my current state, so am working on figuring out how to improve accuracy further, but at least I can now get 100% on paper @ 20 yds.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

[Sarge]

3-4" at 25yds is excellent and about all most can do. I also think missing 40% on a 15 yard target taking dead aim is indicative of more than just a powder choice. Something may be wrong with the gun and the loads that deliver exceptional accuracy just happen to be in perfect time with a broken part?

I mean, I have tried many combinations and bad groups were throwing too many C's from a rest at 20-25yd and good groups hover around 3"

[Bamboo]

I'd agree with sarge, seems that if you are missing the ENTIRE target at 15 yards 40% of the time that somethings else is in play.

I've had loads that consistently tumbled the bullet and still could get mostly A zone with the rest being C zone hits on an USPSA target at 25yards...just left holes the shape of the bullet profile.

But, yeah some barrels are picky and their tastes can change with age. i have a PM-9 9mm single stack that won't shoot

Competition Specialties cast 135gr SWCs and will tumble them dang near every time, but another 9mm single stack with a Schuemann Classic 9mm barrel with the exact same load can shoot a paster out at 20 yards. With other bullets the PM=9 is very accurate, just not with those old 135gr SWC bullets.

I've used Autocomp, HS-6, CFE pistol and Silhouette and have good results with them accuracy wise, but for 38 super find them to be a little blasty...but they work. I'd second the AA#7 recommendation. It's a favorite of mine and is among the most accurate powders I've used for 38 super major in every 38 super gun I've owned, also it loads well in a progressive press.

I don't know what 38 super TCJ bullets are, but montana golds, zeros, precision deltas, and the RMR manufactured jacketed bullets in 115 and 124 seem to all be accurate jacketed bullets. If you are using a plated bullet....well, I have had better luck with SNS and Bayou coated than any of the plated I've tried.

Good Luck!!!

[a matt]

Yes I shoot plated bullets. TCJ=total copper jacket. Lol

But, thank you for all the advice and thoughts. With the round count I have I may just go ahead and put a Schumman in and then the barrel won't be in question. I kinda have a feeling the barrel may take care of the issues I've been having. Thanks again...

[CZ85Combat]

Plated bullets in an open gun not a good combination.

[a matt]

Run perfect and shoot under 2" @ 25yards off a rest all day long for the last 3 years. No complaints here with shooting Open with a plated up to 1450fps. Thanks

Edited August 4, 2016 by a matt

[thompsoncustom]

Ya its really hard to say the powder is causing the accuracy issues and not the plating just failing will the faster powders.

[a matt]

The plating doesn't fall off with HS-6 or AutoComp @ 188pf and both are faster than 3m38.

[thompsoncustom]

Just because you can get it to work with some powders doesnt make it a good bullet for the application.

Good thing is its easy to test. Get some good jacketed bullets and try them with the powders that arent working with your plated bullets.

You would probably be better off running a coated lead bullet over a plated one.

[a matt]

The plated bullets are not the issue here, thanks. These same bullets run great in Chris Keen's gun with HS-6 the same with David's and AutoComp.

Edited August 9, 2016 by a matt

[fuentesd99]

The bullets are not the issue. I am the other person that a matt is talking about.

My bullets work GREAT in my gun and I use AutoComp at around 181-185PF. I have tried his bullets in my gun and they are not accurate at all. But, his bullets in his gun work GREAT and he gets nice tight groups with it. And I have given him my bullets to shoot out of his gun and they are all over the place. He has tried a bunch of different powders and they are all, all over the place.

Now....has anyone else ever experienced this before???

[johnbu]

On 8/9/2016 at 6:44 PM, fuentesd99 said:

The bullets are not the issue. I am the other person that a matt is talking about.

My bullets work GREAT in my gun and I use AutoComp at around 181-185PF. I have tried his bullets in my gun and they are not accurate at all. But, his bullets in his gun work GREAT and he gets nice tight groups with it. And I have given him my bullets to shoot out of his gun and they are all over the place. He has tried a bunch of different powders and they are all, all over the place.

Now....has anyone else ever experienced this before???

Nope, never heard of that situation. I would slug the barrel to start.

[kamikaze1a]

Have you checked the comp alignment?  I know it's kind of far fetched but if you are getting 1" at 20yds with one load while a different load with the same bullet groups at over 15" at 15yds with key-holing it's got to be something beyond the powder...  Someone in your area must have a comp reamer.