Trigger Prep

[MrTuna]

I was advised by a Grand Master to get my trigger prepped while the gun is cycling and and my sights are settling on the target. This is to get bad habits out of the way that newbie's can have for example pinning the trigger to the back. The problem I am having in training is that I have a single action trigger on my CZ 75 Shadow SA that has quite a bit of take up and the take up is under spring pressure making it risky to prep the trigger due to the possibility of a ND. I'm going to change the trigger to one where the take up can be adjusted out of the trigger. My question is what is the proper finger placement on a SA trigger after reset? I would think it would be touching and ready to pull with no pressure. Is that correct? I'm in the middle of changing platforms and want to train correctly and safely.

Thanks!

[DKnoch]

I dont prep my single action trigger while waiting on the sights to settle back on target. Also I would think a trigger with less take up, would be easier to have an ND than one with more

Daniel K

[MrTuna]

I dont prep my single action trigger while waiting on the sights to settle back on target. Also I would think a trigger with less take up, would be easier to have an ND than one with more

Daniel K

I have never prepped a single action trigger such as a 1911 trigger but this one has the feel of the take up of a striker fired gun. It resets and then there's a bunch of over travel. Of course that doesn't change the fact that it's single action and should be left alone until I'm ready to fire. I'm just thinking if the long take up is gone it would be more like a 1911 and would be ready to go. I'm used to DA/SA triggers. I may just convert it into a DA/SA Shadow.

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[DKnoch]

I shoot a da/sa sig 226 and it has a little take up, but theirs no weight on the take up in single action. If you can switch triggers and shoot it without prepping, that would be ideal. Do you shoot limited minor with it right now? If so, i would switch it to da/sa and shoot production

Daniel K

[Dr Mitch]

Listen to the grandmaster, and ignore the internets.

[Jake Di Vita]

I was advised by a Grand Master to get my trigger prepped while the gun is cycling and and my sights are settling on the target.

I think this is utterly ridiculous advice.

I'd encourage you to not prep the trigger, and instead get proficient at pulling it all the way through quickly without moving the sights.

[MrTuna]

I shoot a da/sa sig 226 and it has a little take up, but theirs no weight on the take up in single action. If you can switch triggers and shoot it without prepping, that would be ideal. Do you shoot limited minor with it right now? If so, i would switch it to da/sa and shoot production

Daniel K

That's what I have been shooting in IDPA. I need to talk to my mentor about the CZ because he is running a Tanfoglio and his advice would probably be different once he has it in his hands.

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[DKnoch]

Listen to the grandmaster, and ignore the internets.

The grandmaster is a way better shooter than me, im not saying he's wrong. I solely told the OP what I do. Shooting weak hand only on a stage I've shot a round off before i meant to on a virginia count stage and it went into hard cover, because i had the trigger prepped. My gun doesnt have weight on the take up though, like the CZ in question does. If it's in idpa, maybe swap the trigger out for the one with less take up in it, or just keep shooting your current trigger until you find out what works for you. Practice with the trigger prepped and see if it improves your split times or accuracy

Daniel K

[Jake Di Vita]

Just the idea that you are going to precisely prep your trigger consistently during the .06ish seconds it takes for the gun to cycle sounds suspiciously like snake oil salesman talk to me.

What possible benefit is there to this technique over learning to just pull the trigger correctly as normal?

[MrTuna]

Okay,

Here is what I was going off of.

https://youtu.be/GIBxf90axXQ

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[Jake Di Vita]

I'd like to see a super slow video of him showing that because I highly doubt it goes off the same way he described. I also disagree with his premise that it is more efficient to do it that way.

If all you were talking about is getting off the trigger during recoil, that's fine and a good idea as long as it doesn't screw with your accuracy. When you add prepping the trigger during recoil by applying pressure to get through pre-travel but not enough to break the shot that is where you lost me. There is no shot we will ever see at a USPSA match that I will prep my trigger for. Single or double action. I don't even prep the trigger with slow fire group shooting.

Edited July 24, 2016 by Jake Di Vita

[inspector1999]

I have trained with the person in that video, and belive me when I say he preps his trigger the way he describes. He has practiced that reset and prep through dry fire and more dry fire and then more dry fire that his finger does it automatically. Once you have about 10 years of practice on that skill, you will worry less about a ND during the prep and notice your trigger finger discipline is no longer what is holding you from achieving your goals.

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[Jake Di Vita]

I know JJ. I have squadded with him 15-20 times in the past. He's a fantastic shooter and I love the guy. I still don't think it actually happens just like he describes. It's going to take a video of his trigger finger during recoil slowed down for me to change that opinion.

This isn't even something you can really practice in dry fire since it depends on recoil to practice it.

Edited July 24, 2016 by Jake Di Vita

[MrTuna]

I think focusing on driving the gun back on target is a very good thing to practice at this point. I'm nowhere near his level but what a cool guy! He is a crack up. His dry fire routine is very intense.

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[Jake Di Vita]

Yeah driving the gun to the target is an absolutely key skill. I think it's one of the primary things that separates lower from higher class shooters.

I laugh hysterically the entire time I'm around JJ. Dude cracks me up. It's usually with KC too, those guys together are something else lol.

[MrTuna]

I'm fortunate, he opened a shop near me. I have to admit I spend too much time down there BSing. Not to mention the high end Tanfoglios and CZs.

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[Jake Di Vita]

Tell him I said hi next time you see him. I'd probably spend a lot of time there if I lived in the area as well.

[MrTuna]

Tell him I said hi next time you see him. I'd probably spend a lot of time there if I lived in the area as well.

Will do Jake!

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[jroback]

I'd like to see a super slow video of him showing that because I highly doubt it goes off the same way he described. I also disagree with his premise that it is more efficient to do it that way.

If all you were talking about is getting off the trigger during recoil, that's fine and a good idea as long as it doesn't screw with your accuracy. When you add prepping the trigger during recoil by applying pressure to get through pre-travel but not enough to break the shot that is where you lost me. There is no shot we will ever see at a USPSA match that I will prep my trigger for. Single or double action. I don't even prep the trigger with slow fire group shooting.

Jake: in another post you advocated for using the same trigger finger position for every shot (http://forums.brianenos.com/index.php?showtopic=236817&hl=jake#entry2641029). I was wondering, even when you practice slow fire group shooting using that same trigger finger placement (DA or SA), do you try to press the trigger at the same speed you would use for a close target? What I'm trying to understand is: if I use the same grip and same trigger finger placement for every shot, what is the technique difference between a close shot and a more distant tight shot - better sight alignment or slower trigger press on the tougher shot (or both)? Thanks.

[Jake Di Vita]

For 90% of the targets I know from experience that I can slap the poo out of the trigger and still hit the center of the target. I have some sight movement when I slap the trigger, but usually it isn't enough movement to effect my score on target. That being said, I try to tie my trigger control to my eyes in that what I'm doing with my hands depends directly on what I'm seeing. On riskier targets I want the sights to be more rock steady during the shot so I tend to squeeze more than slap. I have noticed however that the more solid my support hand grip is, the less trigger control I need.

If we're talking shooting two open targets one at 5 and one at 20, my trigger control is practically the same but I spend more time on the sights on the more distant target. If instead we have an open target at 10 and an extreme noshoot partial at 10, the difference will mostly be how aggressively I'm pulling the trigger.

Hope that makes sense.

[jroback]

That's very helpful, thanks. I have been working on optimizing my grip in dry fire so that I can slap the trigger without sight movement; its coming along, but still has room for improvement (my live fire results also tell the same story). Nonetheless, its good to know that I'm on the right track by emphasizing this skill in practice.

[jroback]

This has been a bit of a revelation for me. I followed Jake's approach in dry fire and then the last time I went to the range . . . my entire attention was on keeping a rock-solid grip, with essentially no attention to trigger press mechanics. My accuracy was much improved -- Thanks Jake!

In retrospect, previously I may have been focusing too much on a smooth flat trigger press, and not putting enough attention on maintaining the right grip. I suggest giving this a try. . .

[thermobollocks]

I won't even prep my revo trigger. Too much room for error.

[PatJones]

I won't even prep my revo trigger. Too much room for error.

That's so weird to me. My Revo is the only firearm where my trigger pull is half done by the time I have a sight picture.

[Nimitz]

you don't stop or hesitate once you start your Revo trigger pull, do you? Isn't trigger prep usually defined as taking up the pre travel and then either stopping or hesitating before breaking the shot?