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optimum charge?

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Hi,

Thanks in advance for your time and help with this topic

since muzzle flash, or a fireball is evidence of unburnt powder it should follow that-- unless a fireball is desired-- eliminating muzzle flash is at the least economical among other reasons. But i also would not want to lose any velocity.

Reloading data for the powders I am using specify that the barrel length for the given load is based on a 24" barrel. given that I have a 16" barrel Im sure this is part of the issue for muzzle flash.

My question is: is reasonable to say that the charge could be reduced to the point just before a flash is produced (even if it's below the minimum load data provided by the powder manufacturer) and that would be the optimum charge for a given barrel length and also where velocity is max and there is no waste of powder?

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Why not try it out - let us know what you come up with??

I would imagine you'd lose some velocity if you drop the charge, but

I may be wrong. :)

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with out a chronograph to test the results (which i do not have) i could not post conclusive results.... i guess im looking for some experienced insight/knowledge.

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with out a chronograph

Not a great idea to reload without a chrono ...

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different powders can make a large difference i muzzle flash, but in general, the shorter the barrel the more flash you get. reducing the charge probably will not accomplish what you want. generally a quicker burning powder will help, but that does not factor in flash deterent coatings on some powders which i am not qualified to speculate on.

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ok...i figured this would be a bit more difficult challenge as a post than the others from the offset. so... for a given powder (realizing different powders will have different parameters), at the point flash is eliminated, is that the optimum charge for said barrel length and the max velocity that is achieveable from said powder?

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Muzzle flash is not a good indicator of loading data. IMO, trying to use a flash scale to determine optimum load will not work. You will always have some flash depending on lighting conditions etc. I wouldn't know how to quantify a muzzle flash scale. Some slower powders are flashier than others. Some powders ,such as CFE223, are less flashy. The keys here to get an optimum load are accuracy and velocity. I wouldn't load below the min load. If you get too much flash and need to reduce below minimum, you need a different powder. I shoot a D/E and have great accuracy. I think everyone will agree that a Deeagle is flashy. High amount of slow powder(H110) and short barrel (6 inch)gives lots of flash. My advice(worth every penny you pay for it) is to get a chrono and start experimenting with different powders and loads. Ignore the flash as a load indicator, or get a flash suppressor.

PS

I wouldn't think that the Army uses muzzle flash to dial in this load. ;)

post-22108-0-94202300-1469070539_thumb.j

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care to elaborate? if not, thanks anyway for your input.

Sorry, didn't have time to go into it at work.

Like others have said, burn rate, coatings, powder volume bullet weight, and many other things play into load development.

Because a certain powder may burn at a rate that leaves some powder still burning as the bullet leaves the barrel does not mean reducing the amount of powder will make the load more efficient. Remember that a powder charge will have X number of individual powder gains burning at the same time to produce the gas (and therefore pressure) to propel the bullet down the barrel. Reducing the powder charge will also reduce the number of gains burning and the volume of gas at any point during the burn cycle, thus reducing the muzzle velocity regardless of muzzle flash.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

Edited by bikerburgess

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ok...i figured this would be a bit more difficult challenge as a post than the others from the offset. so... for a given powder (realizing different powders will have different parameters), at the point flash is eliminated, is that the optimum charge for said barrel length and the max velocity that is achieveable from said powder?

not necessarily.

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My question is: is reasonable to say that the charge could be reduced to the point just before a flash is produced (even if it's below the minimum load data provided by the powder manufacturer) and that would be the optimum charge for a given barrel length and also where velocity is max and there is no waste of powder?

Optimum for what?

Velocity is definitely not going to be max where you have reduced flash by dropping charge weight, just the opposite in general.

If you don't want to lose velocity and you don't want to waste powder, get a longer barrel.

Others have already hit upon other variables as well. The type of powder has a significant impact on the amount of flash as well.

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Assumption is wrong

Fireball not unburned powder, but gas temperature is still incandescent.

Powder folks say that, in rifles, all the powder that will burn does so within the first 1-2 inches down the barrel. Handguns are probably even shorter for powder burn length.

They also have flash-suppressors in some powders so you won't see a flash.

Try ACCURACY--that is what counts.

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What noylj said. Your premise is false. Muzzle flash isn't emitted in the transition between solid and gas states. The light of the muzzle flash comes from the hot gases themselves. There may be a touch of powder exiting the barrel, but the muzzle flash is coming from what's already been converted to gas.

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Assumption is wrong

Fireball not unburned powder, but gas temperature is still incandescent.

Powder folks say that, in rifles, all the powder that will burn does so within the first 1-2 inches down the barrel. Handguns are probably even shorter for powder burn length.

They also have flash-suppressors in some powders so you won't see a flash.

Try ACCURACY--that is what counts.

thank you for the very useful enlightenment. that is something I can work with. I appreciate your input and sharing of knowledge.

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