drmweaver2 Posted July 10, 2016 Author Share Posted July 10, 2016 Went to the Pineville, MS match today. Long drive (for me) in both directions - bad back and a Prius don't go together well. But I enjoyed myself. Anyway, you guys were absolutely correct. Met some really great people who, just as ya'll said, wondered why I wasn't shooting. Truth be told, I think I'd have been DQ'd/scored REALLY badly on every setup had I shot - different reasons with each one. In any case, I followed a group of super-hot shooters and then went over and watched a couple guys more my speed (1 was shooting just his second match with a "production Glock 17"). Learned quite a bit from shooters on both extremes - "sh*t happens and it doesn't 'kill you', just your score" and "you shoot until you're sure you hit it regardless of the stage's instructions!" Lol. Seriously, the heat got to me and I left before they finished the entire match. So, I may have missed out on some things I might have learned. But, now I have an idea of what to expect next time I go to a match. And I plan on doing so. I didn't see anyone with a true "budget" gun like mine, but I saw some nice production Glocks. And then, of course, there were the REALLY NICE guns which the owners surprised me by offering to let me handle them even without my asking. I kinda felt like I wa holding a gold bar! A couple of these weapons probably cost more than my monthly retirement pay! Ah if I could only win the Lottery! I saw a range of performances - from fast trigger work that approached machine-gun rapidity to a procedural penalty even I "caught" and understood when it happened. Watching & comparing the differing levels of shooters plan their stages was also informative. Ultimately, I might have been able to "complete the stage" on all but 1, but there was a distant target I'd probably have missed even with 4 shots. I just don't have a steady enough hand/smooth enough trigger finger to hit it. So, I got what I was looking for from watching the match and more. I do think I'll do a bit more indoor range shooting before I go and enter a match. I need to practice the things I've previously mentioned and get a bit of confidence. So, thanks for the responses and support above. Now to go soak my bad back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tha1000 Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 Poplarville's range is not indicative of your normal uspsa club, but it's always a fun match. Hope you enjoyed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drmweaver2 Posted July 10, 2016 Author Share Posted July 10, 2016 Poplarville's range is not indicative of your normal uspsa club, but it's always a fun match. Hope you enjoyed it. Can you explain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tha1000 Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 (edited) Poplarville's range is not indicative of your normal uspsa club, but it's always a fun match. Hope you enjoyed it.Can you explain? 360 degree range, safe area in the trunk of your car, permanent structures, etc. Shooting in a gravel pit like that is the exception, at least around here. Everywhere else has traditional bays. That being said, it's one of my favorite matches in this area. They are able to do some things that other ranges can't do in terms of stage design due to their layout. Edited July 10, 2016 by tha1000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drmweaver2 Posted July 11, 2016 Author Share Posted July 11, 2016 Thanks for the response. My only recent experiences at outdoor ranges is visiting Nick's in Gary/LaPlace and the Southern Shooting Center in Thibodeaux. I didn't shoot at either, just looked 'em over trying to decide if I wanted to join either membership-wise. So I appreciate your clarification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barebones1 Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 now its time for some dry fire. gather your gear. shoot your first match. WARNING highly additive! no cure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbu Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 Q: what is your budget gun? The triggers on most low end guns are pretty bad, but detail polishing can at least smooth them out. Since visiting the match, you can see the importance of quick drawing, smooth trigger work and the ability to transition fast to engage targets. Luckily, you can get good at those SKILLS, with dry fire practice. Stoeger's pro shop and other places sell scaled down targets that you can put in the house and run around dry firing at. You can also just cut out some printed on paper too. There are smart phone timer apps to give the start beep and a par time (second beep). Great way to improve without cost or leaving the house! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drmweaver2 Posted July 11, 2016 Author Share Posted July 11, 2016 (edited) Q: what is your budget gun? I want to "compete" with my S&W SD9VE (9mm). It has a "notoriously difficult", 2 stage, 8.5lb trigger pull. The 1st stage aspect of the pull is relatively long, soft/spongy, and I think, "sloppy". I'm probably going to get an Apex trigger kit to replace it if I can't get used to it. That will lower the pull to ~5.8-6.2lbs as well as reduce the length of the pull and over-pull(correct term ?). FWIW, today I went to the indoor range I've joined and shot my S&W M&P 22 (full sized, not compact). First time "seriously shooting it". Mostly I was concentrating on sight picture and smooth trigger pull. Put between 150 & 200 rounds through it and had 3-inch groups slow fire at ~20 feet and 5-inch "sprays" when rapid firing (for me that's about once every 2-3 seconds or so to about once every 4 seconds with the 22 - no such rapid fire timing for me with the SD9VE, I just don't have the sight picture/gun control to rapid fire that pistol at all) at the same distance. So that was encouraging, but it's a completely different trigger than the SD9VE and it's only a 22 so far less recoil. (If I had more time and more money, I'd have shot the SD9VE also... but time and money are not endless commodities for me.) As I was driving home, I was thinking, "isn't it too bad that neither USPSA nor IDPA has a 22 cal division. I'd be all over that!" Oh, as far as the timer apps and dry fire go, yeah, I need to do some of that. Just a matter of time. Edited July 11, 2016 by drmweaver2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCTaylor Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 (edited) isn't it too bad that neither USPSA nor IDPA has a 22 ca division. I'd be all over that! USPSA and IDPA may not but Steel Challenge does! Edited July 11, 2016 by SCTaylor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e4effort Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 I always advocate people who have never shot action pistol to just jump right in. My home range requires a 1 day clinic to get you acclimated with range commands, basic safety rules, and even properly drawing from a holster and reloading on the move. It's an incredibly great offering and the guys who run it are very very helpful and they don't get anything out of it besides wanting to help the sport grow. Being safe will always be the priority, but you will quickly learn to push the envelope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbu Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 isn't it too bad that neither USPSA nor IDPA has a 22 ca division. I'd be all over that! USPSA and IDPA may not but Steel Challenge does! I was just going to suggest steel challenge! My son and I have been shooting SC for a couple years now. Easier than uspsa in some ways, harder in others. It's stand and shoot, no holster draw for 22lr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 Q: what is your budget gun? 3-inch groups slow fire at ~20 feet and 5-inch "sprays" when rapid firing ( once every 2- 4 seconds with the 22 - You really need to do a LOT more shooting. 3" groups slow fire at 20 feet should be brought down to at least 2" at 30 feet. Rapid fire is Not a shot every 2-4 seconds .... especially for a .22 In USPSA with a 9mm or .40 Major, rapid fire is more like 2 - 3 shots per second. You should spend an hour reading the postings here at BE on shooting techniques (Dot Torture Drill, dry firing techniques, etc - learn about grip and trigger control). And, as SC and JohnBu suggested - start out with steel challenge - tell the Match Director (MD) that you are shooting your first match, with the .22, and he'll take over from there - they will work with you for the first entire match. Just remember - Safety first, 2nd and 3rd. Welcome to the shooting sports - enjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drmweaver2 Posted July 11, 2016 Author Share Posted July 11, 2016 I dunno why, but the Steel Challenge matches just don't appeal to me. Possibly it's because it seems to be just "stand and speed-pull the trigger"... The USPSA & IDPA matches have strategy and movement and both of those add additional appeal to me as opposed to "just being fast". Now granted, I am neither fast nor particularly accurate, BUT appeal is what it is. It's either there or it's not. And right now, Steel Challenge matches don't have "it" for me. Of course, others may, and probably do, see it differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 Attend a local IDPA or USPSA shoot ... Observe. Bring your gun/mags/ammo/holster/eye & ear protection with you. Talk to the MD - ask him if you can shoot the match. Pls get back to us about your first match experience. Oh, and good luck - hope you enjoy it. SAFETY ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drmweaver2 Posted July 11, 2016 Author Share Posted July 11, 2016 You really need to do a LOT more shooting. 3" groups slow fire at 20 feet should be brought down to at least 2" at 30 feet. Rapid fire is Not a shot every 2-4 seconds .... especially for a .22 In USPSA with a 9mm or .40 Major, rapid fire is more like 2 - 3 shots per second. You should spend an hour reading the postings here at BE on shooting techniques (Dot Torture Drill, dry firing techniques, etc - learn about grip and trigger control). snip... Welcome to the shooting sports - enjoy With the exception of the Steel Challenge, I pretty much agree with what you've implied/written. I definitely realize that I'm a beginner. I know that I need to shoot more. I know I have to refine my technique. But the original post had to do with WHEN I should start or consider starting to compete. The range of responses here and on other forums (to my question and to similar questions from others) varies greatly - from NOW (just be safe) to "get about 5000 rounds downrange" to "start when you can hit 2" groups at 12 yards and double-tap/pull the triggger twice in 3 seconds while maintaining/reacquiring the proper sight picture". Helpful responses all, but not consistent. I have printed out at least 50 different targets to drill/practice with, including the Dot Torture and other recommended targets (after finding out what they cost!!! at the range....I AM a cheap bastard). I thought it was clear that my "rapid fire" explanation was talking about MY current rate of fire with the 22... not what would be competitive in a USPSA, IDPA or Steel Challenge match. I know that I am not competitive speed-wise. But it's a starting point. I have a lot to learn. It's why I am here... and have been reading posts on this forum and others for the last month or so (mostly lurking as a guest before registering a few days ago). Thanks for your comments. Anyway, thanks for the comments. They were "on point". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan454 Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 I dunno why, but the Steel Challenge matches just don't appeal to me. Possibly it's because it seems to be just "stand and speed-pull the trigger"... The USPSA & IDPA matches have strategy and movement and both of those add additional appeal to me as opposed to "just being fast". Now granted, I am neither fast nor particularly accurate, BUT appeal is what it is. It's either there or it's not. And right now, Steel Challenge matches don't have "it" for me. Of course, others may, and probably do, see it differently. I once thought the same thing, but it's actually a lot of fun and harder than it looks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daft Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Bring the ammo and the money and ask to be paired up with a teacher, its your first time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Go now. If nothing else, you'll learn what you are not best at and have some knowledge of what you need to work on first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreed911 Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 In response to your "Truth be told, I think I'd have been DQ'd/scored REALLY badly on every setup had I shot - different reasons with each one" comment, I shot a match with a group this weekend where I was a guest. It went HORRIBLE. My gun decided that this was the time it should break a part and failure-to-eject and double-feed became the norm so I ended up leaving before the match ended (after troubleshooting and determining I couldn't fix it there). Frustrating, but I still had a GOOD time and the PEOPLE at the match (as well as the stages) were GREAT. USPSA matches, in general, are filled with friendly folks who have a real desire to see other shooters enjoy themselves and succeed. In response to your "budget gun" comment I've seen a new shooter run a match with a Taurus PT-111 and four ten-round mags. He ultimately decided he needed a different gun, but got his first match under his belt and had a good time. I guarantee his gun wasn't his limiting factor (just like mine's not yet, either). Next time, go shoot! Go slow, be safe, and get hits. More than anything, enjoy yourself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 We had a lot of new shooters at the IDPA match Saturday. Nobody got disqualified and I think most of them will be back. As said, dryfire is your friend. It is free, can be done at home, and will help you with trigger control. I DO wish introductory sessions were more common, maybe required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perttime Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 I dunno why, but the Steel Challenge matches just don't appeal to me. Possibly it's because it seems to be just "stand and speed-pull the trigger"... The USPSA & IDPA matches have strategy and movement and both of those add additional appeal to me as opposed to "just being fast". Now granted, I am neither fast nor particularly accurate, BUT appeal is what it is. It's either there or it's not. And right now, Steel Challenge matches don't have "it" for me. Of course, others may, and probably do, see it differently. Strategy and movement certainly have that appeal, and SC doesn't have much of that. Shooting SC is very much about accuracy too: being accurate as quickly as you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drmweaver2 Posted July 12, 2016 Author Share Posted July 12, 2016 I've seen a new shooter run a match with a Taurus PT-111 and four ten-round mags. Wow. I would never even consider trying the course they set in Poplarville with a pistol with that short a barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drmweaver2 Posted July 12, 2016 Author Share Posted July 12, 2016 Okay, slight thread drift question here... Any thoughts on the cosst/benefits relationship of using L. A. S. R. Laser Activated Shot Reporter software and/or Next Level Training SIRT training pistols for training for USPSA and IDPA, especially for beginner like me? I like the LASR software idea and it's relatively inexpensive. A SIRT pistol, otoh, seems both a bit expensive and duplicative wrt to the fact that I already have a S&W M&P 22 for cheap live fire and sight alignment training/practice. But maybe I can find an inexpensive, alternate laser pistol to use with the LASR software. Or maybe it's just throwing money away at this point.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Spend the money on ammunition, go shoot a match before you spend money on equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanks Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 (edited) I definitely realize that I'm a beginner. I know that I need to shoot more. I know I have to refine my technique. But the original post had to do with WHEN I should start or consider starting to compete. The range of responses here and on other forums (to my question and to similar questions from others) varies greatly - from NOW (just be safe) to "get about 5000 rounds downrange" to "start when you can hit 2" groups at 12 yards and double-tap/pull the triggger twice in 3 seconds while maintaining/reacquiring the proper sight picture". Helpful responses all, but not consistent. ... The responses vary because every one has a different experience and criteria. I am a beginner competitor as well. MY approach was to get to a certain skill level first and then compete. I didn't want to worry about basic fundamentals (I know it is an ongoing process) during a match. I had my first match in May and have five matches under my belt so far. In my view matches are for applying your skills and not for practicing skills (not enough repetition or rounds during a match). After each match I do an AAR and self-analyze what I did right and what I can improve then work on that along with accuracy (always accuracy), if I video a stage or two I also ask people for input (people on these forums have been very helpful with that). To make the long story short, you will know when you are ready to compete. Edited July 12, 2016 by tanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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