What Ammo/bullet Do The 'better' Shooters Use?

[dadman]

In the 'Zoom Zoom' topic ( http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=23570), what kind of ammo does the better shooters use, especially for the longer range targets?

New or reman, i.e. Black Hills?

FMJ/mil-type, match, SP, or palstic tipped bullet?

If you tell me, will you have to kill me?

Aware that it's the man not the gun, and practice, etc., etc., etc.

[kellyn]

This has been extensively covered in the forums.

Most will rely on cheapie 55 FMJ factory ammo (PMC,Winchester White Box, etc.) for the close stuff.

As for farther shots you begin to see some variation. One common theme however appears to be the use of a quality bullet.

I like handloaded 69 Noslers HPBT match bullets (WW case, WW small rifle primer, RE15/Varget/AA2230C), Voigt and Cooley shoot a lot of Hornady 75 gr HPBT match factory fodder, I believe Matt Burkett relies on Black Hills with 77 gr match bullets (correct me if I'm wrong Matt), KurtM likes handloaded 55 grain Sierra Blitzkings (plastic green tip), I've seen Jerry Miculek shoot a lot of 55 grain Hornady VMAX in a factory load. Jake Kempton relied on handloaded Sierra 69 HPBT matchkings.

While different weights have favor, everyone seems to like a quality bullet - at least at the important matches.

[dadman]

This has been extensively covered in the forums.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes. Will try that search feature some more.

Safe to assume they're not lobbing 20+ year old surplus.

[benny hill]

Anything past 100 yds gets nosler 55gr blistic tip loaded by Ultramax ammo.

[kellyn]

Bennie can't handle the massive recoil of the 75 grain Hornady.

[texasag93]

What ever I happen to have in the raange bag when I get to the match. I am not a good shooter so I can't really comment on what the "best shooters" use. Black Hills works for me. TXAG

[George]

Kelly summed the specifics up nicely. The big dawgs are all over tha map in actual components, but the generalities are that pretty much everyone shoots something that gives them a decent enough result for them to be confident in shooting it (decent is a variable measure here). 55 gr is the most often chosen bullet weight. Some change for different conditions, heavier, better, etc.

The only real points considered are usually "is it accurate enough to make the shot?" and "does it run reliably in my gun?". Past that, cost is an issue, but not a big one compared to the first two points and considering that travel and other big match costs usually put ammo in the financial backseat (unless it is the IronMan 3 gun match).

--

Regards,

Edited May 3, 2005 by George

[MattBurkett]

Hey guys,

I use 55's up to 150 yards or so then generally switch to 77's. :-)

Black Hills most of the time.

Take care,

Matt

[benny hill]

Kelly, I use the ultramax w/ nosler 55 blistic tip because the group about 1 1/2 in. @ 300, but most of all they sponser me with all I can shoot.

[kellyn]

Good bullet ... and a good reason to shoot em!

[scottmilk9]

I noticed that my 55gr PMC or S&B's werent knocking down the larue target at 300+ yards, so I have switched to 68gn bthp for longer range and havnt had a problem since. Make sure if you are doing this you know where your gun hits from 10-400yds with the different ammo.

[davidwiz]

At the SMM3G match this year, I heard some people mention that they were having trouble activating (meaning, hitting it hard enough so the flasher showed) some of the distant steel targets with their .223 55gr rounds. I was using 69gr so didn't have this problem, but was wondering if anyone here had this type of problem with .55 gr .223 bullets.

[dadman]

Thanks for the replies. Been helpful.

Any bullet preferences for .308/7.62x51?

[D.Hayden]

I was using 69gr so didn't have this problem, but was wondering if anyone here had this type of problem with .55 gr .223 bullets.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

David, for the 55's not activating the flasher, any idea what fps they were shooting at?

Just wondering if I bumped up the PF if that would take them down.

The 69's what was your FPS?

[George]

Ifn'ya shoot yer 55's at 3150-3250 fps, that will probably not be an issue (3200x55 = 176 PF).

Ifn'ya flirt with the new minor floor (150), I will say no more!

I don't think the M part of the equation is the problem here, just the V ;-)

--

Regards,

[Larry White]

I think George is right, the answer is more gun powder.---Larry

[BillL223]

David, When I shot the SMM3G a couple of years ago, you had to knock down the targets. I used Blackhills 52 gr and had no problem although an observer said I had really solid hits. Today, I use no less then a Sierra 69 past 200 yards. Used this load last week at the New York match and always got a flash (slowly) @ 330 yds.

[CraigS.]

At the SMM3G match this year, I heard some people mention that they were having trouble activating (meaning, hitting it hard enough so the flasher showed) some of the distant steel targets with their .223 55gr rounds.  I was using 69gr so didn't have this problem, but was wondering if anyone here had this type of problem with .55 gr .223 bullets.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I had difficulty understanding why the target was ringing but it was not showing the flag. this was our the first stage we shot.

The RO did a target check with his rifle (don't know what ammo ) and could not make it work then some one else shot at it and it worked, so we continued on .

I checked the targets out up close after the match and found that the design

warranted a shot placed in the upper 1/3 of the target to get any movment

from it, as it has a hinge at the base, with four stiff springs behind the middle and

upper half of the target .

There seemed to be a big difference in pressure to activate the target when pushing

it at the top and the middle section.

These targets are like shooting a popper with 9mm you gotta hitem high!!!

CraigS.

[D.Hayden]

Ifn'ya shoot yer 55's at 3150-3250 fps, that will probably not be an issue (3200x55 = 176 PF).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's what I was thinking, didn't know if this was some case where PF doesn't really translate right.

I'll load those 55's up good..

as least until I can get more practice with the 68/69s...

[PacMan]

At the SMM3G match this year, I heard some people mention that they were having trouble activating (meaning, hitting it hard enough so the flasher showed) some of the distant steel targets with their .223 55gr rounds.  I was using 69gr so didn't have this problem, but was wondering if anyone here had this type of problem with .55 gr .223 bullets.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I had difficulty understanding why the target was ringing but it was not showing the flag. this was our the first stage we shot.

The RO did a target check with his rifle (don't know what ammo ) and could not make it work then some one else shot at it and it worked, so we continued on .

I checked the targets out up close after the match and found that the design

warranted a shot placed in the upper 1/3 of the target to get any movment

from it, as it has a hinge at the base, with four stiff springs behind the middle and

upper half of the target .

There seemed to be a big difference in pressure to activate the target when pushing

it at the top and the middle section.

These targets are like shooting a popper with 9mm you gotta hitem high!!!

CraigS.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We noticed that too while standing around waiting for our squad's turn. I'm not impressed with the "Flagman" style target since there is too many variables that would affect its consistency.

[davidwiz]

David, for the 55's not activating the flasher, any idea what fps they were shooting at? 

Just wondering if I bumped up the PF if that would take them down.

The 69's what was your FPS?

69gr Sierra w/ 25.5 grs of W748 @ ~2700 fps out of a 20" bbl.

-David

[George]

69gr Sierra w/ 25.5 grs of W748 @ ~2700 fps out of a 20" bbl.

That's a 186.3 PF. The 69 at 2700 delivers 1117 ft lbs at muzzle, 757 at 300 yards and 706 at 350 yards. (BC used = .345)

A 55 @ 3250 is 178.75 PF but will do a better job downrange than the 69 at 2700! Why, because it delivers 1290 Ft Lbs at the muzzle, 851 at 300 and 756 at 350. (BC used = .267)

A 55 @ 3150 is 173.2 PF and is exactly the same as the 69 in downrange energy. It delivers 1212 Ft Lbs at the muzzle, 764 at 300 and 702 at 350. (BC used = .267)

I shoot a 77 at 2650 for a 204 PF (.394 BC) and it only delivers 1235 ft lbs at the muzzle, but it retains more downrange energy than any of the rest because that's what it is made for ;-) It's still got 882 ft lbs at 300 yards and 831 at 350. It doesn't drop below 780 ft lbs until after 400 yards :-)

Dem's the facts, make of it what you will.

--

Regards,

[D.Hayden]

I just bought some 748, it seems to be able to get the 55's up to the 3,250-3,300 range (compressed) (only one listed in the Speer manual that does).

Sierra shows 748 max'ing at 2,900..

Hodgdon shows 27.5 (compressed) Varget getting there too.

Going to need to work up slowly..

[Paule]

TAC (Western Powder) is one you might want to try. Lot of good commercial loads use it.

I heard the target that wouldn't pop the flag at SMM3G had a malfunctioning sensor for several squads. Was supposedly found and fixed the same day but not before quite a few shooters crashed on it. The targets were supplied by a new sponsor though so maybe they didn't want to rain on that parade. Too many to reshoot and didn't want to throw out the stage?

[SGDM]

Hornady 75's and BH 77's. Gotta practice with what you hunt with!