9 major or 38 super comp for open?

[chevrofreak]

4 minutes ago, Nevadazielmeister said:

 

This would concern me. I once loaded a few thousand rounds of 5.56mm rounds with a slower powder only to find out that I was bulging the case walls and was getting failure to feed and failure to eject issues. I have to use a piston gun to get the ammo to work. Have you measured the COAL and more importantly, the sides of the case? I have to imagine that with your case absolutely full, the powder has to do somewhere. 

 

At least with my Dillon 650, having full cases of powder leaves a lot of powder on the floor. 

3n38 compresses somewhat well, and I had no case bulging.  Everything went through a shockbottle hundo without problems. 

 

That said, I am still switching to Silhouette.  8.3gr under a 115 shot beautifully.  It loads easily, too, being only about 2/3 to 3/4 full. 

[kneelingatlas]

10 hours ago, Nevadazielmeister said:

 

You were able to fit 9.4 grains of 3N38 in a 9mm Major case? Wow. Sounds kinda impossible. With on average 13.8 grains of water capacity for a typical 9mm case, where would the bullet go? Even with a compressed load, what kind of COAL are you getting?

 

This picture shows what 9.4gr of 3N38 looks like in 9mm case

 

 

Sure, it's compressed, but because of the shape of the powder, there's plenty of room to push, I've seated all the way down to 1.1" (the seating die starts to dent the front of the bullet at that point).  My typical OAL is 1.160" which is actually a load listed in the Vihtavuori load manual under 9x21: 9.4gr 3N38 under a 115gr bullet at 1.161" for 171pf.

 

Yes, the case is really full and if you work the handle like a drunken sailor, you will spill powder, which is why I load 10gr of Lovex D037.1, it's fine like dust and leaves more room at the top of the case.

[chevrofreak]

19 minutes ago, kneelingatlas said:

 

This picture shows what 9.4gr of 3N38 looks like in 9mm case

 

 

Sure, it's compressed, but because of the shape of the powder, there's plenty of room to push, I've seated all the way down to 1.1" (the seating die starts to dent the front of the bullet at that point).  My typical OAL is 1.160" which is actually a load listed in the Vihtavuori load manual under 9x21: 9.4gr 3N38 under a 115gr bullet at 1.161" for 171pf.

 

Yes, the case is really full and if you work the handle like a drunken sailor, you will spill powder, which is why I load 10gr of Lovex D037.1, it's fine like dust and leaves more room at the top of the case.

I get the feeling that those aren't sized cases as the level was higher than that for me when I was loading. 

[Balakay]

15 hours ago, Nevadazielmeister said:

 

Yes, I can: I shot two Limcat Razorcats: One with 6.7 Grains of AutoComp in 9mm Major and one with 8.8 grains of Vitvhouri 3N38 in 38 Super Comp. The Super Compwas noticeably flatter. 

Have you chrono’d these loads?

I need 10.7 g of 3n38 to make 170pf. I have 4 small popples, standard length Brazos comp. 

Maybe your barrel is super fast(or mine is slow) but 8.8 seems light

[Nevadazielmeister]

3 hours ago, Balakay said:

Have you chrono’d these loads?

I need 10.7 g of 3n38 to make 170pf. I have 4 small popples, standard length Brazos comp. 

Maybe your barrel is super fast(or mine is slow) but 8.8 seems light

 

I have not but look forward to getting them checked. It has been explained to me that each batch of powder is different and each Open Gun is different. I have heard people making major power factor with just 8.5 grains, but the parties suspect that it was due to a hot batch. 

 

As for poppling, there is quite a bit. Something like 3 on top, 2 each side of the 2 and 4 o'clock positions and 2 at the sides, all at about the last 1 inch of the barrel. It is a KKM barrel. 

[blindmarksman]

9 major = cheaper brass = more shooting 

[levellinebrad]

I had this same question before I ordered mine but I was lucky enough to shoot on a squad with a guy that had a new 9mm SVI and a guy who had a new 38 SC SVI. I could tell a difference between the 2 guns but no difference in how flat they shot. The difference was more in the recoil impulse but I had no real preference towards either one. Since I am getting ready to roll into my 50’s and have already had 2 back surgeries, I went with the SVI in 9mm. If not for the back, I would most probably have ordered it in 38SC. Hopefully it will be here by March of 19!

[wick]

On 8/14/2018 at 9:33 AM, blindmarksman said:

9 major = cheaper brass = more shooting 

Yess it is

 

 

[kneelingatlas]

32 minutes ago, levellinebrad said:

I had this same question before I ordered mine but I was lucky enough to shoot on a squad with a guy that had a new 9mm SVI and a guy who had a new 38 SC SVI. I could tell a difference between the 2 guns but no difference in how flat they shot. The difference was more in the recoil impulse but I had no real preference towards either one. Since I am getting ready to roll into my 50’s and have already had 2 back surgeries, I went with the SVI in 9mm. If not for the back, I would most probably have ordered it in 38SC. Hopefully it will be here by March of 19!

 

Were the both of similar design? comp, soide weight, barrel length and number of holes? powder, PF, and bullets, there are a lot of variables to isolate before a meaningful comparison can be made.

[levellinebrad]

31 minutes ago, kneelingatlas said:

 

Were the both of similar design? comp, soide weight, barrel length and number of holes? powder, PF, and bullets, there are a lot of variables to isolate before a meaningful comparison can be made.

They were similar in build and PF but not exact of course. I think SVI puts 3 popples in the 38 and 2 in the 9mm or maybe I’m backwards on that. Barrel length was the same but the 9mm had little squirrels all over it and they were different colors. I think they were as close to the same as they could be considering that SVI builds a 38 differently than a 9mm. The point is that they felt almost identical when shooting them. 

[Shadyscott999]

It all comes down to one thing.  

Do you mind picking up brass?

38 will always shoot nicer.  ( will cost just as much if you one and done all your brass vs picking up 38)

There are plenty of good powders for both.

9 is harder on the guns and harder to get ejecting properly

I shot 9 for 2 years.  Loading it is a pain in the ass vs 38

[Steelix]

2 hours ago, levellinebrad said:

I had this same question before I ordered mine but I was lucky enough to shoot on a squad with a guy that had a new 9mm SVI and a guy who had a new 38 SC SVI. I could tell a difference between the 2 guns but no difference in how flat they shot. The difference was more in the recoil impulse but I had no real preference towards either one. Since I am getting ready to roll into my 50’s and have already had 2 back surgeries, I went with the SVI in 9mm. If not for the back, I would most probably have ordered it in 38SC. Hopefully it will be here by March of 19!

 

I thought SVI stopped making 9mm open guns. 

[Foxbat]

40 minutes ago, Shadyscott999 said:

I shot 9 for 2 years.  Loading it is a pain in the ass vs 38

 

Hmmmmm... never noticed that.  Same process. 

 

Furthermore, when I shot both in the same gun, I did not notice any real difference.  Certainly nothing that would have affected my scores one way or the other.

[Sarge]

37 minutes ago, Steelix said:

 

I thought SVI stopped making 9mm open guns. 

That’s my understanding as well.

[levellinebrad]

7 hours ago, Steelix said:

 

I thought SVI stopped making 9mm open guns. 

 

7 hours ago, Sarge said:

That’s my understanding as well.

They have stopped offering them for sale. Apparently they were getting a lot of them back with  supposed warranty issues but it was in fact bad reloads causing the issues. They grew tired of it and I think they were worried about their reputation. That was the story I heard anyway.

 

i am shooting a CK in 9mm right now and it is a great gun but I think if I had ordered from anyone but SVI, I would have gone with 38SC. I just happened to get a good deal on the CK used.

Edited August 19, 2018 by levellinebrad

[Foxbat]

I have two 9mm SVI guns, one 6 year old, one 3, and I am happy with both of them.

 

Old pic - now they both have RTS2's.

[highhope]

10 hours ago, Foxbat said:

I have two 9mm SVI guns, one 6 year old, one 3, and I am happy with both of them.

 

Old pic - now they both have RTS2's.

looks nice!

[Nevadazielmeister]

On 8/14/2018 at 6:33 AM, blindmarksman said:

9 major = cheaper brass = more shooting 

 

Where are you getting your 9mm brass cheap? And for how much?

[blindmarksman]

Just now, Nevadazielmeister said:

 

Where are you getting your 9mm brass cheap? And for how much?

try ammoseek. some places sell it for $0.02/round cleaned and processed

[Nevadazielmeister]

On 8/9/2018 at 7:59 AM, Balakay said:

Have you chrono’d these loads?

I need 10.7 g of 3n38 to make 170pf. I have 4 small popples, standard length Brazos comp. 

Maybe your barrel is super fast(or mine is slow) but 8.8 seems light

 

My new chronograph arrives this Tuesday, but then I have hunting duties for the next few weeks, so will have to get back to you sometime September. But if I bag a big game early then I will likely have time. 

[Nevadazielmeister]

8 minutes ago, blindmarksman said:

try ammoseek. some places sell it for $0.02/round cleaned and processed

 

Ahh, that is a very nice website. Thank you for sharing. 

 

So I checked out one place for 12k of 9mm cleaned brassed for $371, so thats $0.03 per round. If I get 6 reloadings out of my 38 Super Comp brass, then the both balance out, don't they?  

 

So for all of the 38 Super Comp shooters, how many times have you reused the brass? This might help everyone understand the cost debate.

[3gunDQ]

9mm Makarov!

[Foxbat]

9mm brass can be had for about 1 cent ea, but in reality I get about as much range pickup (from the bucket), as I lose in matches, etc. 

 

So it is pretty much free.

Edited August 20, 2018 by Foxbat

[racer-x]

When I was shooting 38SC, I wasted too much time picking up brass at local matches. Time I would much prefer using to plan my stage, run other shooters & help our squad move. 

 

Regarding case life, I keep using my brass until I lose it - 9 or 38SC.

I purposely reused the same lot of 200 cases 10+ times when I first started running 9major to see how it held up.

Even after 10 uses, the primer pockets were still tight and I only had one cracked case (no malfunction though). This brass was not new when I started either, and this was back when I was running True Blue & 124's in relatively slow barrels. TB was much harder on the guns than the slower AA7 I shoot these days. Haven't found any cracked cases since I stopped using TB for major either. 

 

 

[theWacoKid]

2 hours ago, Nevadazielmeister said:

 

Ahh, that is a very nice website. Thank you for sharing. 

 

So I checked out one place for 12k of 9mm cleaned brassed for $371, so thats $0.03 per round. If I get 6 reloadings out of my 38 Super Comp brass, then the both balance out, don't they?  

 

So for all of the 38 Super Comp shooters, how many times have you reused the brass? This might help everyone understand the cost debate.

You only need 5 loadings to get super to 3¢ per. The cost debate will never be resolved so no use in trying because legit arguments refute all other arguments. Such as, factor in loading your 9 just twice. Now how's it breakdown?  How often are you going to have ready to go x-fired super brass to shoot at lost brass matches to keep you on that "break even" pace?  Which just shoots better?  Will you enjoy picking at brass during matches?  It'll never end, choose and go.