Gun sales information

[Sarge]

In the wake of the recent tragedy I saw where information was readily available on when, where and what guns were purchased.

How was this found out so quickly? I thought 4473's were disposed of after use. I know receipts can be used for this. But how did the FBI know how to find this info if they aren't keeping records?

[mreed911]

There's a record of the NICS check. Pretty easy to work backwards from that to the store that requested the check, look at their 4473's, etc.

Also not hard to give the SN to a manufacturer, find the distributor, and find who the distributor sold it to... then look at their 4473's.

It's why I enjoy not having to worry about NICS checks (Texas CHL's meet the NICS exemption criteria).

It's also why they're after person-to-person sales - they can't track them.

Edited June 14, 2016 by mreed911

[Youngeyes]

Please keep the posts to information only. No politics please.

[tyler2you]

4473s aren't destroyed. They are required to be maintained by the FFL as long as they remain in business. If they go out of business they are required to contact the ATF for disposition instructions (where to send them for continued storage).

When the ATF needs to track down a weapon, they provide the serial number to the manufacturer who then provides them with the retailer that took original delivery of the weapon. The retailer then has to dig through their stacks of 4473s to determine who the original purchaser was. It's a pretty quick process for a recent sale, but can get complicated when the original purchaser no longer owns the weapon. With no requirement for private parties to maintain records for sales, the trail can go cold quickly. I know I would have a tough time coming up with details for weapons I've sold 15 years ago.

[mreed911]

4473s aren't destroyed. They are required to be maintained by the FFL as long as they remain in business. If they go out of business they are required to contact the ATF for disposition instructions (where to send them for continued storage).

Not true. The requirement is 20 years if the firearm was delivered, 5 years if the NICS check was done but the firearm was not delivered (for any reason). When they go out of business, they do have to contact ATF for disposition... but only of forms they've kept in accordance with these time requirements.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/atf-national-firearms-act-handbook-chapter-12/download

27 CFR 478.129(

Edited June 14, 2016 by mreed911

[Miranda]

thanks for reopening this thread.

one of the more interesting facets of a our society

is that a lot of information gets 'leaked.'

the legality of that leak is rarely questioned.

an example is a female sports caster vid you can see on the 'net.

There is little doubt the video is the evidence of a crime.

yet such things happen....

miranda

[tyler2you]

thanks for clarifying mreed911.

Not sure how using a CHL in lieu of a background check does anything though. The dealer still completes a 4473 for the transaction even without a background check.

Edited June 14, 2016 by tyler2you

[SCTaylor]

Not sure how using a CHL in lieu of a background check does anything though. The dealer still completes a 4473 for the transaction even without a background check.

It just makes life easier, no hassle on the system having issues / wait time or the "pending" flag.

[mreed911]

thanks for clarifying mreed911.

Not sure how using a CHL in lieu of a background check does anything though. The dealer still completes a 4473 for the transaction even without a background check.

All it does is avoid the NICS check. They just have to track it back through the manufacturer and distributor to the retailer.

The CHL helps for those times when NICS is down and means there's never a reason for my SSN to go on a 4473.

I have an 03/FFL so it wouldn't do me any good to worry about government record keeping since a good portion of my collection is C&R with records kept in my bound book, and the majority of what's not (newer, non-C&R stuff) was purchased or transferred via 4473 anyway.

It does make acquiring some things via person-to-person make sense since there's no transaction records (and it's why I'm anti-BOS... that and an unauthenticated, non-notarized BOS is as worthless as the paper it's printed on)... but I digress.