Ron Ankeny Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 Now, now...see what happens when tactics and the "real world" get mixed in with the shooting sports. That's why benos tries so hard to keep this forum confined to discussions about competition. I had the good fortune to visit with a world class shooter who also trains law enforcement agencies and some feds. He happened to mention in passing that a "B" class shooter had all of the necessary gun handling skills to survive a real world encounter. From there other elements enter in... It was a rather interesting conversation. Personally, I find it very comforting knowing that I can beat all of the Girls Scouts. If one of them ever comes at me with a box of cookies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 Ron, If there Thin Mints, catch the box. You don't want to break those, they're delicious! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Million Mom Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 That "instructor" is making a lot of very rash assumptions. Usually, the bad guy gets to make the first move, and he doesn't betray his intentions until he is less than one second from dominating the action. That is, he is inside 6 ft with a contact-weapon, or inside 10ft with a gun, and he's already got it out when the good guy has to draw from concealment. About 3x as many cops would get killed as do today, if it weren't for the general wearing of body armor. A lot more would die, too, if it weren't for swift access to excellent trauma-care. I've seen a lot of A class competitors who don't have a clue what it's like to move at the necessary speeds, from concealment with realisitic gear, in bad light, on a mover, with the sort of distractions that are commonplace in a real gunfight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 I think I should step in now and remind the forum that this is a forum about competition. We've been down this road before and we should cool it before it gets away again. This forum is about competition it really doesn't matter what class would win a fight with what...we are shooting at brown paper, for time and score. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Million Mom Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 Are we REALLY, though? If that is the case, why aren't we just shooting Bullseye? I think that you should look a lot deeper into the motivation of "action" shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 Not the point, this forum is about competition. Not defence. As per the header at the top of the forums list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPSC CHIK1 Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 regarding motivation of shooters in the "action" sports. i find it is the most fun i can have with my clothes on! SharonAnne L2387 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 You know I think I'll just leave that one alone...I guess you never shot with my old shooting partner...more than once he has appeared at a match with not quite all of his clothes on...throws a few shooters off their game when they get mooned right before they shoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 Pat: Kinda adds new meaning to the term, "Shoot the moon". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 Wouldn't that be Moon the Shoot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 ROTFLMAO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Million Mom Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 But, do you understand WHY it is so much fun, as vs shooting bullseye, or shooting blanks, like the SA revolver Fast Draw guys, or playing tennis? (Edited by Million Mom at 11:11 pm on Dec. 15, 2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulW Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 For cryin out loud, Million Mother F*&^ker.........don't start this crap on here!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RKooi Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 Thanks Paul, couldn't have said it better myself. I guess there are those that just can't make the differentiation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vluc Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 Gee, i felt a great sense of accomplishment as a "D" class shooter getting that plaque for beating a bunch of other "D" shooters. Not "D" anymore, but c'mon, it's a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deaf Smith Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 Long time ago, when I made black belt in TKD, I was told this, "Making black belt is easy, living up to it is hard." The idea being all the lower students expected me to be good. My teacher expected me to be good, and if I wasn't I embarrassed him. And now, being a 4th black, I am expect to look good ALWAYS. If you look on Glocktalk, and my name, you will see my Avatar, and yes that is me in both pictures. I do have to live up to that. Well, I shoot expert in IDPA now, almost, just almost, in master class. At our local matches, I usually, but not always, take first over all (ok, we don't have but one master class shooter that shows up now and then.) I am 'expected' to do well (and I do, relatively speaking.) I don't look at who is first in expert, or sharpshooter, or marksman. I look only at 'first over all'. That is all that matters. This is a carry over from TKD. I am expect to do well by my own self. If I shoot crappy, I am pissed at myself cause I should not be shooting that bad (and it happens.) If you like high standards you have to push yourself to make those high standards. Oh, IDPA is fun to me cause... it is fun, at the local level. I do remember this, when I told a friend I was going to the state match in Houston, they said, "have fun, enjoy it". I looked at them and said, "Driving 300 miles is not fun. Standing in the cold all day is not fun. Being tired waiting for an hour to shoot each stage and spending a lot of money is not fun. What is fun is driving home with the trophy!" Local matches are fun for me, state and national are not. Coming home with the trophy is ALWAYS fun, regardless. Deaf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Million Mom Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 Personally, all I ever cared about was the win. I know what I did. I never needed the trophy at all. They all just went into the attic. What matters is the skill that you can demonstrate, not whether or not that skill is recognized or remembered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deaf Smith Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 Gunkid,, is this you 'million mom'? Deaf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Quote: from Million Mom on 11:10 pm on Dec. 15, 2002 But, do you understand WHY it is so much fun, as vs shooting bullseye, or shooting blanks, like the SA revolver Fast Draw guys, or playing tennis? (Edited by Million Mom at 11:11 pm on Dec. 15, 2002) No they are all fun. We play them for enjoyment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Million Mom Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Sure, but do you understand WHY you enjoy them, as vs just shooting bullseyes, or indeed, instead of playing basketball, shooting hoops? It is about combat, whether you recognize that fact or not, and whether or not you like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulW Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 I seen enough of this MM. Brian? Forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Sharp Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 "Titles or classifications mean squat." True enough although they do provide some form of validation. The motivation of any competitor is constant improvement. Competition provides the measuring stick. At the last Straight Blast Gym camp in Portland my coach gave a great presentation on competition and the mindset of a competitor. One of the traps that Matt mentioned athletes falling into is constantly comparing themselves to other athletes. He talked about how guy's get hung up on who they tapped or knocked out, and how that is a dead end street. One, it doesn't mean anything because if you train often enough and with good athletes you will get caught, and Two, you don't know whats been going on in that guy's life. Maybe he just came back from a 6 month layoff due to an injury or maybe he just found out his wife is leaving him and his head is a thousand miles away. Getting hung up on the whole win/loss thing really is pointless when you look at it from that point of view. I go out and do the best I can do in that moment, beyond that I have no control over what kind of day my opponent is having, what injuries he has or I have or any other elements of the "X" factor. One moment in time, meaningless over all. Once I grasped that concept my ability as an athlete improved enormously. "Sure, but do you understand WHY you enjoy them, as vs just shooting bullseyes" Yes, I do understand, to a degree, why I enjoy them. Personality type. I'm competitive and enjoy challenges. By the way, there is no "vs" for me, its all shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Quote: from Million Mom on 7:09 am on Dec. 17, 2002 Sure, but do you understand WHY you enjoy them, as vs just shooting bullseyes, or indeed, instead of playing basketball, shooting hoops? It is about combat, whether you recognize that fact or not, and whether or not you like it. You just don't get it do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moneypenny Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Deaf Smith, has the perfect analogy with the pressures, I too am a martial artist, and it is the same expectance to perform every time as it is being master. My feeling is, its a good feeling for others to think of you that way, and good motivation to not tank a match, because everyone will remember, and its you who will feel bad. I have to disagree on the state match, and i think some of the more seasoned competitors look at it this way also. When you shoot a big match, instead of being a burdon to go its like visiting friends, you get to see people you don't see too often, to say hello and relax a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snokid Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 I have to admit that I was hung up on the classification myself, boy I sure wanted to be a "master class" shooter.... well I didn't make it thank god... Here is what I did.... I shot the idpa classifier 4-5 times a week, well I was improving fast really fast....but..... with my new expert rating I go off to a big match just knowing that I'm going to kick some butt... well can you guess what happened? last place... not even in expert but in Marksman also.... what did I learn? that title doesn't mean your the shooter that you think you are.... Now I go to a match and I'm the only one I'm shooting agaisnt. I don't even look at the over all scores some of the times. I just look back on every stage and think where did I mess up? Did I move well? Where were my sights? But once in a while I do see if I beat my mentor or if I was close to him/her. I will one day make expert again, but it won't be in the classifier, it will be in the real world. I just hope that no one tells me I made it. Just learn something from every stage you shoot... What if Brian or Robbie Said I'm the best that there is? How do you think they would be shooting now? I bet that Rob even still looks back at a stage or two from the world shoot and learns a thing or two... sno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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