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Flagler Cup


Chris1911

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Thanks. I eventually opened the first one by double clicking fast. I can also open the new link, thanks. Pity about the layout. No ranking ladder with some decent Metallic and Production scores just tacked on the bottom not even showing in the grades.

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Yes you are 100% correct my bad.

Actually I have no issues with the layout or order of presentation of results and I regret that I didn't say what is really on my mind. Basically in my humble opinion the results are all about ranking by Gun Class. I personally have little interest in ranking by shooter Classification/grade. It's that simple really. I am very sorry that I didn't say that in the first place. I have several reasons for this viewpoint.

In an ideal world we would give awards based on ranking by Gun Class and shooters individual personal bests but obviously that's too difficult.

I do think the awards payout system of one award per X number of entries used this year at Bianchi was fair.

Just my opinion in the pursuit of excellence. Sorry to be a pain and I am already looking forward to next years competitions. The massive amount of work done by Pioneer Gun Club to put on this event is much appreciated.

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No worries.

I do agree with your points. Rank within Open, Metallic, and Prouction is what matters to me also. I looked at those at the match and didnt really notice that he sent 2 reports with almost identical information.

He may have meant to send the gun type report but instead sent 2 based on Classification.

I can pester him for a gun type report if you want?

I dont mind how people do awards. I just wish NRA had been a little more clear with some of their intentions. It was written, but not understood by a lot of people and probably not sent soon enough for people to make decisions based on the program. Oh well. Thats not the topic of this thread.

Let me know if you want a different report. Im more than happy to ask for it. :)

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I do think the awards payout system of one award per X number of entries used this year at Bianchi was fair.

I would respectfully disagree. That awards format, combined with eliminating the random prize drawings during the banquet is a dis-incentive for anyone who isnt a professional to show up, as your prize potential is next to nil, and the costs are high. You wont ever get casuals to show up without incentive, which is why attendence was down a lot this year.

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I do think the awards payout system of one award per X number of entries used this year at Bianchi was fair.

I would respectfully disagree. That awards format, combined with eliminating the random prize drawings during the banquet is a dis-incentive for anyone who isnt a professional to show up, as your prize potential is next to nil, and the costs are high. You wont ever get casuals to show up without incentive, which is why attendence was down a lot this year.

I agree that the give away door prizes on awards night are a major draw card. I myself have received two guns from the previous three years. That was a major buzz. Lucky I guess.

I do not believe that the reduction in competitor numbers this year can be attributed to the lack of door prizes or the reduction in placing payouts because we only learned about them at the competitors meeting Monday? night just before day 1. What you are saying may of course effect the number of entries next year and without door prizes attendance at awards night may well decline a lot but that's for next year. As to the payouts being reduced to placing numbers, I guess they had little choice. With 30% less funding and 30% less competitors they had to reduce the payouts to keep solvent. The decline in sponsorship etc has been thrashed out in other forums. My point was that it seems fair to me to pay out each group based upon a percentage of the numbers in that group so that each group was treated with relative fairness.

We must all hope that attendance does not decline next year.

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Solvent? This is the NRA we are talking about. Money isnt an issue. Desire to grow the sport, and connectedness with your competitors is the issue, and organization is a by product. They extended the match out to.....fill friday with a hastily put together side match?

Those that won awards found out quickly the NRA went cheap there too. They took doorprize items from years passed and used them instead of cash, even though the NRA solicited more cash this year than last. Where precisely did that go? Doorprizes cost them nothing because they were sponsor donated. And furthermore you now get into issues where those same prizes are asigned to people who cant use them or who get those same items for free from sponsorship. That is why cash or a prize table to choose from had always worked

The actual awards themselves were lacking. Chinsy medals for second overall? Cheap cop out. Last year they had smaller versions of cups. Heck the plaques for 4th international and some of the other side categories were nicer than those medals. I got plaques at regionals for winning skill classes. At the Bianchi cup, the NRAs premier event, i got a W-9 for the little prize money i did get, nothing else.

And if sponsors saw the writing on the wall, and donated less as you are claiming, they obviously see what the shooters are seeing and the NRA is failing to see. Paying out deep in to production was an incentive to get more production shooters to show, because, what is the point of shooting production otherwise? Your scores will be lower than the open shooters, making you less likely to get prizes. The cup at one point was down to like 50-60 TOTAL. We had almost 300 last year. Production class was not far off of open for attendance. In one year it was down 50%. Cheaping out on every aspect is not the way to grow your base. Production is your grass roots. This years issues arent going to help that one bit. In fact it is doing a good job of discouraging even veteran shooters from wanting to come back. Entrance fees and hotel alone are already now a $1000 affair. Watching the NRA go cheap and not even attempt to grow the sport is a slap in the face. The pro shooters will always be the pro shooters. Im not advocating everyone getting awards. Im simply asking, if it wasnt broke, and was working, why did you decide to break it?

The NRA needs to take a page from the organizers of a lot of these regionals. They are better organized, cheaper, and more fun in a lot of cases. With the resources the NRA has, this should never be the case.

Edited by Csbassplayer2003
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