Reloading with muzzle pointed in a safe direction

[IHAVEGAS]

Noticed on the nationals thread below that a couple folks were dq'd for letting a round loose during the reload, for example, I think everyone who has shot more than just a wee bit has likely seen it happen.

Locally, a lady was shot while driving her car by a 9mm bullet that got out of a range, she didn't die and as far as I know eventually made a complete recovery.

Had a recent conflict with a USPSA State match, range rules said to keep the muzzle down but USPSA rules do not allow that range rule to be enforced (IDPA does allow the local rule in this case). Am not sure if that range will drop USPSA, there is strong feeling in the membership.

At the NRA convention, Max Michell stated something like "ranges are being shut down all over the country due to bullets being shot over berms" during his draw and reload demonstration. I do not know the source of the data.

Anyway, do not wish this to be an irritation inducing question, but it seems like allowing muzzle up reloads is probably a bad thing for the future of the shooting sports.

Thoughts??

[Yeti]

What about keeping finger OUTSIDE of the trigger guard during the reload?

[fishsticks]

What about keeping finger OUTSIDE of the trigger guard during the reload?

Agreed. Much simpler solution.

[IHAVEGAS]

What about keeping finger OUTSIDE of the trigger guard during the reload?

Good rule and helpful in my opinion, it can be very difficult for an r.o. or s.o. to see though, and since we have all seen (I'm assuming) a.d.'s during reloads it is not as good of protection as we might need to keep ranges open.

[wtturn]

I think you and max both oversold this topic as a serious issue.

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[George Jones]

I am amazed at the number of ROs I observe who do not seem to know or care that one of their primary obligations when running a shooter is to look at the gun as best they can - as it comes out of the holster until it is back in the holster. Without that focus, the violations are not even seen when they could be. The root problem is that the finger violation even when witnessed by the RO is too often not called at local matches.

Ignoring this violation prevents the offending shooter from learning from his mistake and learn to keep that finger out of the trigger guard. The bad habit is then further ingrained and more difficult to correct, particularly when new shooters are involved.

DQs are always uncomfortable for all involved, but the Unsafe Gun Handling rules are there to prevent the gun from going Bang! when it should not. Those rules are the first level of safety and need to be enforced.

When a range is under threat such as this, the first place to look for the fundamental problem and solution is inward. Emphasis on RO duties and obligations are needed.

[IHAVEGAS]

I think you and max both oversold this topic as a serious issue.

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I do not know where Max got his information, there was no selling intended in my comments, just some recent facts noted.

Anyway, will not make anymore responses to support going one way or another, was interested in the opinions of others.

[peterthefish]

I know in my area a lot of ranges are converting to "no blue sky" style setups due to bullet excursions - either at the affected range or due to an occurrence nearby. It's expensive, but most ranges are well funded here - I could see it shutting down smaller more rural clubs.

That said, these excursions are generally the result of idiots being idiots - I think draws and reloads are the least of problems for typical ranges. Even if reloads are the most typical way a round goes over a berm at USPSA matches it makes sense to remember that most folks shooting USPSA are head and shoulders above most typical shooters on safe gun handling practices.

This is just more Fudd shit and best dealt with by DQing offenders.

[Strick]

I don't see pointing the muzzel over the berm during a reload as issue, if it is then we can pretty much kiss USPSA and all other action pistol goodbye. Over the berm while moving, drawing, transitioning, and many other times during a stage.

Now bullets leaving a range do double hitting a rear falling popper, plates, plate racks, low targets with no type of bullet trap behind them, poppers set in the middle of a bay.......yeah these will most definitely send rounds out of the range.

[peterthefish]

Bullets off of poppers, plates, or the ground aren't typically going to have the velocity to make it far or the energy to do any damage.

[CZinZA]

Painful

But certainly not life-threatening

(Popper ricochet at about 20 yards)

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Edited May 26, 2016 by CZinZA

[Strick]

It is not always about the damage that is caused, just the perception of what could happen.

[perttime]

The air force range that I have access to has a policy of no pointing over the (generous) berm. The range faces the take-off / landing path, so there's also a policy to stop shooting when we detect an airplane...

[peterthefish]

It is not always about the damage that is caused, just the perception of what could happen.

Like I said, Fudd stuff.

[Blue Jacket]

CZ was that a rifle or pistol round. That had to smart!!

[Sarge]

Sounds like max needs to put his soap box away.

[CZinZA]

CZ was that a rifle or pistol round. That had to smart!!

Minor factor 9mm round that my wife shot out of her CZ 75 SP01 shadow. It hit one of the other club members. The photo shows the bruise that evening. Considering she doesn't shoot much, she was quite embarrassed

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Edited May 27, 2016 by CZinZA

[IHAVEGAS]

CZ was that a rifle or pistol round. That had to smart!!

Minor factor 9mm round that my wife shot out of her CZ 75 SP01 shadow. It hit one of the other club members. The photo shows the bruise that evening. Considering she doesn't shoot much, she was quite embarrassed

Sent by Jedi mind control

Good flat steel and nothing unusual about the bullet ?

[CZinZA]

Steel reasonably flat (pistols only at our range). Coated / plated RNFP

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