Huey Posted July 17, 2001 Share Posted July 17, 2001 I have been trying to get away from "double tapping" targets, but seem to only accomplish this sporadically. Any drills or suggestions on how to get away from this bad habit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Chevalier Posted July 17, 2001 Share Posted July 17, 2001 I used to have this very issue. For me (ymmv) slowing WAY down and building back up some speed by watching the front sight and calling every single shot, slowing down again when I couldn't say "I can call it for sure" is working. Perfect is very far away still but "the call" counts for a lot. Thanks to Pat Harrison for his coaching on this very subject. Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted July 17, 2001 Share Posted July 17, 2001 Forget about fast splits on a target and work on a fast index to the next target. Dry firing, move the gun crazy fast to the next A zone. Always be agressive in indexing. I think you'll find the double-tapping may just kind of disappear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPSC Supercop Posted July 17, 2001 Share Posted July 17, 2001 Your right Erik, try to speed everything else up. Try to speed up and cut times on your draws, indexing, target to target transitions, movement from box to box, and mag changes, but don't try to speed up the splits because it cost you points. Your points will drop if you shoot faster and your scores will also drop. Speed up everything else besides the shooting. Kevin/IPSC Supercop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted July 17, 2001 Share Posted July 17, 2001 You guys just confused the hell out of me. I shot a match last weekend with a stage that featured four targets behind a low wall close to the ground, and another array of three targets with partial hard cover in your face at arm's length. I gotta tell you that I "double tapped" every one of them with a type two focus. My splits on the targets ran around .14 and time between targets about .2. When I finished I felt like Superman with an empty can of whoop ass in one hand standing on a heap of defeated villians. Please tell me that fast splits and "double taps" have their place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted July 17, 2001 Share Posted July 17, 2001 Ron, I think the key is the "in your face" part. Given any distance, double taps don't work. Contolled double are the answer. You need a sight picture for each shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted July 17, 2001 Share Posted July 17, 2001 I think there may confusion as to what's "double-tapping." I consider it as when a shooter is shooting fast splits with slow index times. Others may consider it as when a shooter gets one sight picture and pulls the trigger twice. One sight picture and two trigger pulls is totally unacceptable. You may get away with it for a while but it will eventually bite you. Even if the targets are at powder burn range, you need to see your muzzle or the top of the gun or something pointing at the A zone for both shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Bagoly Posted July 17, 2001 Share Posted July 17, 2001 I know a guy with a fast trigger finger who can get doubletaps down to .13 or so, with an average of about .15 sec. His transitions are about .35. I shoot pretty slow, my splits are about .2, with transitions of around .3 Which one of us is faster? I think there are two problems with "doubletapping". One is needing to see a perfect sight picture before making the shots. Needing to make the first shot perfect, so the second will be good enough. The other is prepping yourself to go "extra" fast on the trigger. Try setting up an array of targets, and shoot each target three times instead of twice. That usually gives trouble to the doubletappers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted July 17, 2001 Share Posted July 17, 2001 Wow, this thread covered all the "bases." Maybe think of it like this. Just get the word "double-tap" out of your skull and replace it with the concept of "continous seeing." If your seeing IS controlling your action, you will be shooting at the pace your gun and vision dictate, which will not be pre-programmed double-tap. When your gun never leaves the A box, you shoot at a coresponding speed; when your front site is bigger than the A box, you will likewise adjust. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted July 18, 2001 Author Share Posted July 18, 2001 Thanks guys. I think I need to go back to the basics and work on calling my shots. If I get your meaning right Brain, if I can't see the sights on the part of the target I want to hit, don't pull the trigger! Wish I had started this game 20 years ago. (Edited by Huey at 12:02 pm on July 18, 2001) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyn Posted July 20, 2001 Share Posted July 20, 2001 I used to follow the Gunsite-approved technique of one sight picture and 2 shots. Noticed how I said used to. I would have an A and a C or D or (gulp!) a miss on the 2d shot. Times weren't really any faster than when I shoot 2 shots 2 sight pictures. Another problem w/ "double tap" is that you start thinking about the next target, mag change, movement etc. instead of shooting that 2d shot. The 2d shot tends to go wild. I realize that I am talking about tenths or hundredths of a second but I think it is important to focus on each shot and then go on to do the next task. At one AZ State IPDA championship, I did a "double tap" on an close target (5 yards) and had a -0 (A) and a mike. I never saw the sight on the 2d shot. Beat by Rob Leatham yet again............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted July 20, 2001 Share Posted July 20, 2001 You know, the NAME "double tap" has warped the minds of more shooters than any other concept. See and know, or double tap and be clueless. The choice is up to you. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonedaddy Posted July 21, 2001 Share Posted July 21, 2001 I had a really smokng run on a stage in a club match last Saturday. Mowed all the difficult targets while moving fast. Lotsa "A's" The final target was a full paper at 3 yds around a Bianchi barricade. I "double tapped" it. Alpha-Mike! Double Tap: pronounced (du'bel tap) definition: failure to call the second shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted July 23, 2001 Share Posted July 23, 2001 Perfect. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted July 24, 2001 Share Posted July 24, 2001 Dammit Scotty, beam me up I am confused. Please will one of you master class whizzzzz kids tell me what's up with bashing the "double tap". I have been practicing my double tap for over a year to get where I am today. Here's what I do on clsoe targets. I get the freaking pistol in front of my face and I look "through the sights". I have an awareness of where the pistol is in relation to my line of sight and the scoring surface. I trigger the shot, the pistol lifts, returns to the point of origin where I am once again aware of the relationship of the pistol to the scoring surface even though I do not have a clear sight picture. I then trigger another shot. This usually happens in about .17 seconds on close targets, .14 seconds on in your face targets, and perhaps .25 seconds on mid-range targets. Is this or is this not an acceptable way to shoot and isn't this what most shooters call a "double tap"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted July 24, 2001 Share Posted July 24, 2001 A true double tap is where you sight the first shot and fire off a quick "hoper" in the same direction. You are seeing the gun (sights) the entire time you are shooting. As you are aware of where the gun was when it fired you can call the shot. You are seeing what is happening as it happens. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted July 24, 2001 Share Posted July 24, 2001 two sight pictures...NOT a double tap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted July 24, 2001 Share Posted July 24, 2001 ...oh, now I feel stupid. Why on earth would anyone slap the trigger twice in hopes of hitting something on the second shot. Then again, I quess that's the point, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted August 1, 2001 Share Posted August 1, 2001 See it all. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted August 2, 2001 Share Posted August 2, 2001 See it all. I like that. Put that on the shirt. Goes right along with "visual patience". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted August 3, 2001 Share Posted August 3, 2001 OK, flex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrm79 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 What would be the optimum times for splits on targets out 7 - 10 yds.? Being a low "B" open shooter, I can't seem to get past the .22-.24 area, and be able to call my shots for a 2 A zone hits. Trying to pick up on the speed that a lot of the forum members are shooting at, it seems that I'm way behind. Is this a hump that I need to overcome to move on, or am I looking at this the wrong way? How do you overcome this if it's a problem...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Mark, First...welcome aboard. Second...you stole somebody's "reserved" icon I believe. The icons with an "only" in the titlae belong to somebody already. I think the turtle with the jet pack is in that category? Now..your question. Tension kills speed. Make sure your stance and grip are in order...to give your body the best chance of dealing with the recoil...but don't be tense. Try Matt Burkett's "timing drill". http://www.mattburkett.com/10.html Also, don't chase this too hard. I spent waaaay too much time on this last summer. It killed my shooting. Once I switched my focus back to hitting the target...and trusted my spped to be what it was...I performed much better. Work it in practice...but, get the hits in the match. your speed will be what it is...you can't force fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrm79 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 First, Thanks! Second, I can fix that. Third, Thanks again, maybe I'm getting too hung up on this. At my current level of seeing, I'll shoot stages in the 90-95% range of points. Pushing my splits down below .2 though, and I start dropping in to the 80% range. On high round count stages, it seem as though there is a lot of time that could be made up in the splits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Mark, I am with you. In a ten paper stage...cutting .05 off each split saves half a second in time. But, you sure don't want to lose those points. If you are losing those points, then you are likely forcing things. Your basic technique needs to be in tune. Good technique really makes a difference in getting the splits on target in a timely fashion. Lots of good info on Burkett's site in the Shooting Tips section. http://www.mattburkett.com/ Check out the "Grip and Stance" tips. If you are doing something different, report that here...and tell why. Then try Matt's timing drill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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