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End Of Course Of Fire


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After searching the threads I'm still confused, and every match calls it differently. When is the course of fire over. Some ranges say when comand of "range is clear", others when "if gun is clear, hammer down, and holster."

If you drop a gun at any time during the course of fire, loaded or unloaded, match DQ. This past month have been at two different matches when hammer down and holster command given, guns were dropped while holstering. One was a DQ, and one was O.K.?

Both had "reasons" in the book for actions taken. Any Ideas?

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hi markm,

the course of fire is over when the gun is holstered. we had this discussion awhile back.

here's the rule:

8.3.7.3 If the gun proves to be clear, the competitor must holster his

handgun. Once the competitor’s hands are clear of the holstered

handgun, the course of fire is deemed to have ended.

so if you drop your gun before you holster, you're DQ'd.

i hope this clears it up for you.

lynn

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So if the gun is clear, but you drop it while in the act of holstering you are still DQ'd? Just wondering, since when I first started shooting USPSA I had unloaded and shown clear, and then missed my holster causing the gun to fall to the floor. I was told that since the gun was empty I wasn't DQ'd. Just felt like an idiot.

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This one is kind of tricky. We had a shooter this weekend who holstered his gun and then, when he reached down to engage the locking lever on his holster, bumped the gun and it fell out. It all happened very quickly and made for a tough call for the RO. It's easy enough to tell if a gun is in a holster with a Fobus or something like that but when you're talking about a Limcat, who's to say? Seems like it would be better if the official end of the COF came a little earlier or a little later.

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8.3.7.3 If the gun proves to be clear, the competitor must holster his

handgun. Once the competitor’s hands are clear of the holstered

handgun, the course of fire is deemed to have ended.

so if you drop your gun before you holster, you're DQ'd.

The rule states the course of fire is ended when the competitor removes his/her hand from the holstered gun, it doesn't say the gun has to stay in the holster!

So I would think (Yeah I know it's a reach :P ) if you show clear, are given the command to holster, put the gun in the holster, remove your hand and THEN the gun falls out of the holster it's the same as any other time an unloaded gun falls out of the holster. I don't see anything in the rule that states 'gun must stay in holster xx amount of time to be considered holstered'.

Nolan

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Mark, had this happen to me last year at LASC. The only difference was that the RO bumped my arm while I was trying to lock my holster. DQ call was given, arbitrated and won because of:

8.3.7.3 If the gun proves to be clear, the competitor must holster his

handgun. Once the competitor’s hands are clear of the holstered

handgun, the course of fire is deemed to have ended.

Call was "dropped gun during course of fire"

Probably should have been DQ'ed for "unsafe gun handling" cause I caught the gun at my ankles before it hit the ground and I couldn't tell you where the muzzle was pointed.

I only fought the call because the wrong rule was used.

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Thanks for the input. Looks like other areas are also calling it differently. We now have a basis for review of the calls. However we still have to deal with the safety rules are subject to arbitration. Scott, see you at the range.

Mark

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This is one of those areas where the RO still has a certain amount of judgement. But, if the competitor has holstered his gun, and is no longer touching it, and it falls out, then it's NOT a DQ. The rule is clear, and has been cited here a few times.

The course of fire begins at "Load and Make Ready".

The course of fire ends when the competitor's hands are "clear of the holstered handgun".

There is no minimum time that the gun must remain holstered, it just has to be placed in the holster and the competitor's hand may not be touching the gun.

Troy

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Patches,

I'd think that, if a shooter was still fiddling with the lock, that the "hands weren't clear of the holstered gun"??

Flex,

I'd argue that once you let go of the grip, and move to fiddlin' with the lock, that your "hands could be clear of the holstered gun," though perhaps not clear of the holster. The rule reads:

8.3.7.3 If the gun proves to be clear, the competitor must holster his

handgun. Once the competitor’s hands are clear of the holstered

handgun, the course of fire is deemed to have ended.

Nothing to prevent the shooter from hanging on to his holster.......

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IMHO, Most of these accidents happen since the shooter thinks "ahhh its over" when gun clear hammer down holster command are given. thus instead of still being careful he misses the holster or something similar.

Our brain is telling us that its an unloaded pistol and is harmless thus accidents happen since were not thinking of what we are doing. we have been reholstering for years what could happen. Then it happens

So as shooters, I suggest that we should be careful until its holstered and locked.

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  • 13 years later...

There are a couple things to consider as to determine if the course of fire is over.

One is whether the gun was holstered.   

In my case I had finished a stage (of course, the last stage of the match) unloaded, showed clear, place the gun in the holster, and when I went to apply the lock the pistol fell to the ground.  Somewhere during the stage I must has rubbed the lever for the lock so when I placed the gun in the holster it did not go in all the way and fell out when I took my hand off the gun.  Since it was not in the holster properly the gun was not ‘holstered’ and therefore the DQ applied.

 

Secondly, which rule book is being used for the match.

IPSC rule is the 8.3.7.3 – COF ends when hand is off holstered gun after the “If Clear, Hammer Down and Holster” command.

USPSA rule is 8.3.8 – COF of fire ends after the “Range is Clear” command.

 

Personally I prefer the IPSC rule as it is more consistent.  I’ve been at matches where the RO calls out the shooter’s time first, then ‘Range is Clear’, or gets distracted and then a while later says “Oh yah, Range is Clear”.

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One match, a few years ago, we had TWO shooters DQ'd on my squad because

they dropped their gun on the ground during the re-holster process.

 

Haven't ever seen that happen before or since.

 

TWO, in one day on one squad  ….    :surprise:

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The USPSA Rule is simple. The course of fire starts with Make Ready and ends with Range is Clear. Period. The successful completion of the holster command is too subjective and many shooters just never let go the grip.

 

Jay

 

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As JayWord said correctly, the course of fire ends with “Range is clear.”
As an aside, if the unloaded and cleared gun falls out of the holster, it is not a DQ. That only happens if it is still loaded.

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22 minutes ago, tkheard said:

As JayWord said correctly, the course of fire ends with “Range is clear.”
As an aside, if the unloaded and cleared gun falls out of the holster, it is not a DQ. That only happens if it is still loaded.

 

The zombie post lives.......

 

 You may want to check 10.5.3 - If at any time during the course of fire, or while loading, reloading or unloading, a competitor drops his handgun or causes it to fall, loaded or not.

 

The way I read it, if you drop an unloaded gun during the course fire it is a DQ. Fumble a table start, drop your gun after "make ready" or miss your holster after “If Clear, Hammer Down, Holster” and it ends in a DQ.

 

Dave

Edited by David.Hylton
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1 hour ago, tkheard said:


 if an unloaded gun falls, it is not a DQ. That only happens if it is still loaded.

 

Both of the shooters on my squad were DQ'd even though their guns 

were unloaded.  

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USPSA Rules say:

8.3.8 “Range Is Clear” – This declaration signifies the end of the Course of fire.
 
IPSC still has:
8.3.7 "If Clear, Hammer Down, Holster"
...
8.3.7.3 If the gun proves to be clear, the competitor must holster his handgun. Once the competitor's hands are clear of the holstered handgun, the course of fire is deemed to have ended.
 
The IPSC rule can still lead to the question: "was the handgun holstered or not".
 
 
Edited by perttime
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