Satisfied with M&P Pro accuracy?

[Lior]

Folks, I have read this forum about replacement barrels, insufficient dwelling time, poor accuracy, locking block tolerances and what have you, with regard to the 5" M&P Pro 9mm pistol.

My experience does not reflect the problems that have plagued the people who have been active on this forum. My M&P Pros have been more accurate than I am. Also, we have a national champion IPSC Production Division Shooter who uses an M&P Pro (other top scoring Production Division shooters here tend to use CZ75 based pistols). I cannot imagine that he would often win matches with a pistol that is inherently inaccurate. They started importing M&P Pro pistols here in mid-2013 if I remember correctly.

So I reiterate the opening question - is anyone else quite content with the ability of the M&P with a stock barrel to put rounds where the user aims it?

Edited May 10, 2016 by Lior

[hlpressley]

It certainly can be done, the Apex barrel just makes it easier.

[JMike]

I never had a problem with the one I had in the short time I shot the pistol.

[TacticalReload]

I found a .40 FS that turned out to be extremely accurate. 9mm, not so much.

[watlow]

My M&P 9L with some trigger work is more accurate the dirtier it gets. The M&P 40 that is 8ish years old and stock all the way through is good but I shoot it way less. Maybe we got the unicorns of the herd.

[watlow]

I have more problems with empty mags not wanting to drop all the way out no matter how clean or lubed they are

[TacticalReload]

I have more problems with empty mags not wanting to drop all the way out no matter how clean or lubed they are

Mine all drop out free and easy, but I have a hard time seating new mags (empty or full) until I leave them fully loaded for a full two weeks. Sorry... don't mean to derail the thread.

[want2race]

You should define your accuracy expectations. Also, that top level shooter might have had the barrel reworked, as I did, in order to improve the accuracy. This is quite common, even among pro shooters that are shooting "production" (wink wink) guns.

Mine shot fine for USPSA (3"-4" @ 25) however it would never have been acceptable for Bianchi. Now that it shoots 1" @ 25 I have the confidence to hit anything the sights are on.

[Lior]

You should define your accuracy expectations.

Very good point Sir. Here it's rare for us to engage targets at more than 25 meters. The furthest I've shot in a local match is 40 meters, but that's very unusual. For longer range pistol shooting, I'd take a TOZ 35 rather than an autoloader.

[BrianKr]

Lior, You'll find plenty of folks who are happy with out of the box accuracy.

I'm of the opinion that most M&P Pro's will outshoot most folks who hold it. But there are some folks who can outshoot the gun, and it's not always because they're excellent shooters. The problem guns that you read of here are the oddballs (I hope) in the hands of people who can use the best in accuracy. You simply won't hear complaints from the first folks I mentioned. In the 2nd category only few (again I hope) guns are so out of spec' as to be a problem. I didn't do this myself, but count up the gents posting about problems. I bet the number isn't very large considering the thousands of M&P Pro's being made. When we get one of those guns that was made on a Monday or a Friday we tend to make noises and it makes the problem seem worse than it is. At least that's my hope. I really hope S&W doesn't make a proponderance of inaccurate guns and folks are just keeping quiet or accepting hits out of the A zone and think it's their shooting, if it's actually the gun. I know for the longest time I thought it was me since I'm a 1911 shooter and not a striker fired gun shooter. My M&P was my first striker fired gun.

But I also don't think that the gun you ask about is anything more than special parts put in the bins on the assembly line. If there was special fitting or whatever to justify the additional expense, the guns plagued with accuracy problems wouldn't exist. There is a world of difference in the lock up between a properly fitted barrel and the OEM barrel. All it would have taken would have been a few minutes with a file on an oversize barrel*. Then the gun I bought with "Performance Center" proudly procalimed on the slide would have actually been something to crow about.

* That's all it took me and I didn't know what I was doing and took my time. Additional installations would be much faster than my first. For someone in the Performance Center, whose job it would be, it would be a very rapid fitting indeed after the first dozen or so. IMO, there's no excuse for letting a PC gun out that isn't accurate. As I wrote, the parts used appear to be merely out of different bins and that adds virtually no justifiable cost to the handgun. But it makes no difference... do it right and charge what needs to be charged. Word of an accurate gun will get out, as does word of the accuracy lottery one takes part in when buying one of these guns. It would cost far less to do it right the first time. By the time I got done fixing the problem I was into the rebuild to the tune of $400 and a Wilson and then an Apex barrel. I did get most (not all) of my $ back for the Wilson when I sold it.

BTW, I emailed a nice communication to S&W regarding the problem. I didn't request any action and didn't think that they would even acknowledge my email. I haven't heard anything back yet and I don't expect to.

[MemphisMechanic]

My experience does not reflect the problems that have plagued the people who have been active on this forum. My M&P Pros have been more accurate than I am.

I installed an Apex barrel in mine because it was one of the very, very early 9L's. When I started shooting mine people at matches were still asking what the gun was. It had the 1-in-18" rifling twist, where yours is definitely going to be the superior 1-in-10 inches. Some of the guns are simply tighter than others off of the assembly line, so you have guns that group well too. I've shot a few of them, I know they're out there too!

Given that S&W has used three different barrels in the 9mm guns (that we know of for certain) over the years with various changes, this accuracy issue is definitely not internet hearsay.

My gun would scatter 130 power factor 147gr loads widely enough that there was way you could keep them inside of the A-zone on the IPSC target at 25 meters / yards. Now it shoots a fist-sized group if fired offhand at 25m with a hard sight focus, so I'm a happy customer - especially since I've done this while swapping the original barrel and Apex, using the exact same ammo on the same day. Back to back.

If your gun will shoot as well as you can shoot, there's absolutely no need to install an Apex barrel. Mine would not do that for me. But it does now.

Edited May 11, 2016 by MemphisMechanic

[TacticalReload]

Lior, You'll find plenty of folks who are happy with out of the box accuracy.

I'm of the opinion that most M&P Pro's will outshoot most folks who hold it. But there are some folks who can outshoot the gun, and it's not always because they're excellent shooters. The problem guns that you read of here are the oddballs (I hope) in the hands of people who can use the best in accuracy. You simply won't hear complaints from the first folks I mentioned. In the 2nd category only few (again I hope) guns are so out of spec' as to be a problem. I didn't do this myself, but count up the gents posting about problems. I bet the number isn't very large considering the thousands of M&P Pro's being made. When we get one of those guns that was made on a Monday or a Friday we tend to make noises and it makes the problem seem worse than it is. At least that's my hope. I really hope S&W doesn't make a proponderance of inaccurate guns and folks are just keeping quiet or accepting hits out of the A zone and think it's their shooting, if it's actually the gun. I know for the longest time I thought it was me since I'm a 1911 shooter and not a striker fired gun shooter. My M&P was my first striker fired gun.

But I also don't think that the gun you ask about is anything more than special parts put in the bins on the assembly line. If there was special fitting or whatever to justify the additional expense, the guns plagued with accuracy problems wouldn't exist. There is a world of difference in the lock up between a properly fitted barrel and the OEM barrel. All it would have taken would have been a few minutes with a file on an oversize barrel*. Then the gun I bought with "Performance Center" proudly procalimed on the slide would have actually been something to crow about.

* That's all it took me and I didn't know what I was doing and took my time. Additional installations would be much faster than my first. For someone in the Performance Center, whose job it would be, it would be a very rapid fitting indeed after the first dozen or so. IMO, there's no excuse for letting a PC gun out that isn't accurate. As I wrote, the parts used appear to be merely out of different bins and that adds virtually no justifiable cost to the handgun. But it makes no difference... do it right and charge what needs to be charged. Word of an accurate gun will get out, as does word of the accuracy lottery one takes part in when buying one of these guns. It would cost far less to do it right the first time. By the time I got done fixing the problem I was into the rebuild to the tune of $400 and a Wilson and then an Apex barrel. I did get most (not all) of my $ back for the Wilson when I sold it.

BTW, I emailed a nice communication to S&W regarding the problem. I didn't request any action and didn't think that they would even acknowledge my email. I haven't heard anything back yet and I don't expect to.

In general, I think Brian is probably correct with his assessment. I do, however, think that the "average" M&P9 4.25" or 5" is probably not as accurate as the "average" SIG, Glock, HK, etc. I have a minuscule and statistically irrelevant sample size (as does everyone outside of the S&W factory) but of the 6 M&P9's that I've shot a decent amount, one was terrible, one was fairly bad, three were okay, and one was excellent. The one M&P40 I've shot a lot is as accurate as the best 9mm. I have no experience with the .45acp version. I also think that accuracy problems is due to a detrimental design that is exacerbated by tolerance stacking, rather than purely due to sloppy fit.

[mpeltier]

The OP's original question is specifically regarding the 5" pro model, and the coment on defining accuracy expectation is very valid. The earlier 1/18 bbls were not as consistantly accurate as current 1/10 bbls. However, if you label a pistol a " Pro" model, my opinion is it should be more accurate, have a better triger, sights etc. not just simply have a 3/4" longer bbl. My expectation of a "Pro" model would be to have better accuracy than a standard model and they simply do not.

Edited May 16, 2016 by mpeltier

[zombywoof]

I bought my 3/15 dated Pro model about a year ago. I was basically a 1911 shooter. I wanted something new for IDPA. I was having a difficult time with the new platform, especially the trigger. I also was having a little problem with loading lead bullets for it. I had the crown recut, Apex guts and installed the 13 spring and guide rod. I have medium sized hands and found that the large grip placed my finger better on the trigger. I now have the load worked out and have gotten used to the trigger. This pistol shoots great now. I would love to install an Apex barrel, but it shoots good enough for this game.

[Avedis]

I was pretty satisfied with mine, Apex did help a bit.

Free shipping + in stock if you're looking for one.

https://www.twobrostactical.com/collections/m-p/products/m-p-apex-grade-semi-drop-in-barrel-select-length

[ddc]

I thought my relatively recently purchased 5" CORE was "good enough". I've been shooting it for over six months and initially thought it was close to being as accurate as my 5" PPQ. I had started to suspect that may not be as true as I had hoped but still had no reason to be unhappy.

After reading the recent spate of threads on the Apex barrel I decided to buy one; not because I thought I needed it but because I like to tinker and I was just plain curious if it would make much of a difference.

I'm glad I did. The Apex barrel has cut my group sizes in half. I have posted the results in another thread in this sub-forum. Of course now my wife wants one for her gun also.

Edited May 16, 2016 by ddc

[Yibomb]

Early unlocking is the main problem. And shooters ability.

Edited May 27, 2016 by Yibomb

[RH45]

I have an early, 5" Pro in 9mm. It USED to shoot sub 2" groups @ 25 yards. It developed a huge burr at the top, front of the barrel hood, and accuracy went to 5"-6" @ 25 yards. S&W replaced the barrel with the newest version, and it isn't any better. I bought a 5" C.O.R.E. with the newest barrel, and it doesn't shoot any better. A few years ago, I'd picked up another 5" Pro, and the groups were 8"-10 @ 25 yards.

I picked up a KKM barrel, and with loads it likes will consistently shoot under 2" @ 25 yards, out of the Pro, or C.O.R.E.

I am still considering an Apex, gunsmith fit barrel, but, they aren't taking on any work right now

[P.E. Kelley]

The one in the video is a new model with the "two dimples" on the underside of the barrel (indicates it is the new twist barrel)

Edited May 29, 2016 by P.E. Kelley

[Lior]

Interesting feedback Sir, thanks for posting.. I'm a lefty too but my support index finger is nowhere near the magazine release button (it is squeezing the heck out of the proximal phalanx of my strong hand middle finger).

Edited May 30, 2016 by Lior

[Nemesis Lead]

I put an Apex barrel in mine and compared it to the stock barrel. Both guns shoot identical groups (about 2 inches at 25 yards with me bracing a bit on a table). Money wasted ;-(

[MemphisMechanic]

Most of us who saw the need to spend $$$ on the apex barrel were seeing 6-8" groups at 25 yards with heavier bullets, or larger. I was.

Now it's a 2" gun with the same ammo. It always did much better with 115gr ammo - that hasn't changed much. But 135 and 147 grain rounds actually land where I'm trying to put them.

If my gun had shot a 2" group with my competition loads (heavy bullets at 133pf) I'd never have spent $200 on a barrel.

Edited July 11, 2016 by MemphisMechanic

[Molon]

The one in the video is a new model with the "two dimples" on the underside of the barrel (indicates it is the new twist barrel)

The "single dimple" barrels also have the 1:10" twist. There was no significant difference in the accuracy between the single dimple and double dimple barrels that I tested.

...

Edited July 13, 2016 by Molon

[Molon]

I do, however, think that the "average" M&P9 4.25" or 5" is probably not as accurate as the "average" SIG, Glock, HK, etc.

Aggreed.

SIG P226 Stainless with factory barrel . . .

H&K VP9 with factory barrel . . .

Glock 19 with factory barrel . . .

M&P9 PRO CORE with factory barrel . . .

M&P9 PRO CORE with APEX barrel . . .

.....

[rustybayonet]

I just shoot an M&P full size. I reload so once I got the right stuff going down range not a problem. I do notice S&W's like a 124gn the best. I added a stormlake ported barrel to one of them and it did tighten up my groups but over all I think it's just ginding the right load.