New TS owner

[Tok36]

Thanks to kneelingatlas, I figured out that the left side detent was stuck (most likely from my banging on it like an idiot) and got everything taken down. Spent yesterday working on the sear, hammer, and doing all of the filing. I've spent all day today with sand paper and am almost ready to switch to polishing. I'm also going to adjust the tension on my trigger return spring because I want it to get back with a little more vigor.

If I figure it out, I'll post final details and pics

Here is a quote about bending springs from someone far more experienced than myself. You may have already picked this up, but just in case.

"-Just a "tip" on bending springs. This induces a stress point and will lead to premature failure many times. Not every time. But the potential is there.

If you must bend your TRS, once you are satisfied with the feel, put the spring in an oven @ 350 degrees for about 20-30 minutes. This will "set" the spring and improve it's life span." - Cajun Voodoo Master.

[Pistolpete9]

Good call on making sure I "set" the spring. Not sure I'm going to get to it tonight. I did my polishing with 1000 grit sandpaper yesterday and it was mostly mirror like finish but there are still a few little places here and there that annoy me, so I'm going to start all over and just keep going until I can get the steel looking perfect. No reason to rush it after all of the work that I've already put in.

[Tok36]

You may already be aware of this but just in case. Some of the manufacturing tool marks that may be present on the parts of a new CZ can be so deep that they cannot be polished out completely without removing too much material. I have some very smooth CZs that still look rough in places. The the outside of the trigger bar that contacts the inside of the frame is one place that i have seen this most often (out of 7 or so CZ's).

If you have not seen this polishing guide it may be worth a look.

Smoothing the Action - By Schmeky

http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=42537.0

[Pistolpete9]

Again, thanks for great posts! This forum is full of extremely knowledgeable people, so I clearly don't belong. The refinishing I was talking about was really the grip area of the frame.

I finished putting it back together last night. I removed just an extremely small amount of material from the sear (maybe 4 passes total) and then polished the sear and hammer. I also went ahead and added some tension to the return spring as well as the left side safety detent. Somehow, I seem to have misplaced the right side detent for the moment, but it isn't crucial.

The sear and hammer work made a HUGE difference on my TS! There is now no discernible creep and because it breaks sooner I can adjust the overtravel out a little farther too. Massive improvement for me, but it should be stated that I was sweating bullets the whole time worrying that I was going to over do it. Luckily, I didn't.

I still need to drift the rear sight and install a few new items (magwell, aluminum grips, fiber optic front sight, extended lhs), but I'm extremely happy with the results. I'm looking at some cerakote colors to refinish the frame and am kinda thinking about going loud with the corvette yellow or maybe even gold instead of just going back to the savage stainless. Thoughts?

[Pistolpete9]

I'm having difficulty finding anywhere where there is an aluminum grip that fits with the magwell in any color other than silver. Am I looking in the wrong place? I want to try and get this all put together within a month if possible. I have been able to find the mag well, fiber optic front sight, base pads, springs and firing pin, extended lhs (backorder), and the straight blade trigger (still not sold on that though), and I think I may have decided on a color for the frame, but finding the right color grips would really help make that decision.

[phoenixsomd]

My TS has a CZ Customs magwell and Shooting Sports Innovations "Scales" grips. Mine are "raw" but they come in other colors.

http://www.shootingsportsinnovations.com/CZ-TS-SCALES-BLACK-CZTSBLK001.htm

[Pistolpete9]

Those are very cool looking, but options look limited to black or silver and I'm not sure if I am fully comfortable with having an "open" frame like that. Thanks though!

Anyone else got something that google isn't finding?

[CZinZA]

With care, you can buy a full size grip set in the colour of your choice and cut / sand / grind them shorter to fit with the magwell.

Personally, I used a disc sander

Sent by Jedi mind control

[zzt]

Why not buy the medium thin Aluminum grips from CZC and have them Ceracoated when you have the frame done. You already know they fit.

[Pistolpete9]

Holy crap.....that is a very obvious answer and it completely evaded me. Good call ZZT

[Pistolpete9]

Major trouble in paradise! I have finished with the grip reduction and the frame has been cerakoted. I sanded and polished the hammer and sear and was getting an absolutely excellent trigger break consistently for a week. I adjusted the overtravel to my liking ( very little movement) and thought all was well. Well after a week of working great in all of my dry fire (snap caps used), the hammer is starting to follow if I aggressively manipulate the slide. I am assuming it will do the same if I use live ammo and am not willing to test it. Why the heck did this happen after a week of solidly working? I'm assuming I have to order a new sear now? I was just starting to think that this gun was worth the work I was putting into it and now this!

[Pistolpete9]

Looking really closely at it, I think the problem is the hammer. I'm thinking that I'm going to try to get a really good stone and remove some of the material beneath the hook to recreate the ledge and square it up at the same time. Can't really hurt at this point.

[zzt]

First thing to try is readjusting the over travel screw to allow a little more. That may be a contributor. What it seems like has happened is you did not correctly prep the sear nose and hammer hooks. You simply cannot do that with sandpaper. Since the geometry wasn't correct, the surface(s) wore quickly and hammer follow is the result.

You can recut the sear primary and secondary surfaces and the hammer hooks. Use a flat, hard stone to do the work and finish up with a good, fine ceramic stone. Alternately, you can order an adjustable sear and competition hammer from Cajun Gun works. They should just drop in and work, after you adjust the sear to work with the thumb safety.

[Pistolpete9]

Thanks zzt. It's not the overtravel screw. I checked and there is enough room for clearance there. I went ahead and backed it out anyway just in case, but unfortunately it makes no difference.

For the record, I didn't simply use sandpaper. I wrapped the paper around a flat steel plate with 90 degree edges. I thought that would alleviate the issue of incorrect geometry. Guess I was wrong.

I don't really know how recutting works but it seems a lot cheaper than ordering $150 in parts and going back to a creepy trigger with too much travel. If that doesn't work, the most I'm out is the cost of a stone. Incidentally, is there a certain kind of store that carries those or is it pretty much an online purchase?

[zzt]

I use a Brownell's trigger track ceramic stone for all rough cutting and their fine ceramic (white stone) to put a mirror finish on.

Clamp the stone in a vise and slide the hammer hooks along it until almost finished. The repeat with the white ceramic stone. The primary surface of the sear pretty much requires a jig to get right. You can keep trying it by hand, but sooner or later the nose will become too short and you'll need a new sear.

If you actually look at your sand paper wrapped around a "90 degree edge" through a low power microscope or similar, you will see a relatively huge radius where you were thinking it was actually 90 degrees. That is one of the very definitions of hammer follow. Just to give you some perspective, that occurred in my Sig 1911 hammer after 40,000 rounds. Recutting the hammer hooks fixed it. Try recutting the hammer hooks first. Make them square and see what happens. Then touch up (if necessary) the sear primary surface to match. When you are happy, sut the sear secondary surface and be done with it.

[busdriver02]

zzt, are saying you cut CZ hammer hooks to 90 degrees with success? Did you file down the sear pad below the hooks?

[Pistolpete9]

I'll probably give it a try soon. This gun is eating up budget quicker than expected even with me doing things the cheap way.

[busdriver02]

I'm having a hard time imagining where you sanded and polished. That said, imagine the face of the hammer hook extended down towards the hammer pivot hole. If that extended line (or the one you plan to cut) is in front of the pin hole, you'll end up with a negative geometry and get follow.

If you inadvertently cut a negative geometry on the top half of the hooks by sanding and cut a secondary angle on the sear, then your only contact point between the two is negative. Before you go wailing on the hammer, you might try dropping in an unmolested sear.

[Pistolpete9]

It's still catching most of the time. I have to try to get it to fail. I'm thinking that just the smallest amount of correction on the hammer will get me back to good. I didn't remove any material on the the sear that would be contributing to this. I simply removed some material from the bottom up in order to make it less thick so that I didn't have to watch the hooks slowly drag down the face of the sear as I felt the trigger creep. The engagement in the top of the sear is still factory angled.

Honestly I guess I assumed a little too much about bring able to turn this gun into what I wanted it to be without paying top dollar. I did succeed on the frame reduction, but the trigger has turned out to be a fail. Lesson learned. Either pony up or lessen expectations. A TS is not a 2011 substitute. No way out now though. Gotta find a way to fix it.

[zzt]

bus..., I'm not saying that at all.

Pistol, don't knock the TS. It is a purpose built pistol that is the functional equal of a 2011 for USPSA Limited, for half the price. I own both an can say that with authority. Really, the only difference (and it is a big difference) is the limited number of alternate parts and accessories.

My suggestion to you is to send the pistol to Cajun Gun Works, assuming they are still accepting work. For as little as $100-$120 they will send you back the pistol with all the internals that count polished and smoothed up, and the trigger pull improved. If you call and ask, they will tell you that there is very little else they can do to improve the already fine (TS) pistol. If they have to replace the sear and/or hammer, it will cost a bit more. I had intended to do the exact same thing, but I missed their last cutoff for sending in work.

BTW, when I talked to CZC about the creep I was told that was the price you paid for having a safe sub-2lb trigger. I was also told the easiest way to reduce or eliminate the creep was to install the competition hammer with the shorter hooks.

[kneelingatlas]

If you revisit my May 9th post in this thread, you'll see what to do. The factory hammer will not do what you want, that race hammer will.

[Pistolpete9]

Atlas, I read you loud and clear. I was trying the free route.

ZZT, I completely understand what you are saying and I agree. What I am pointing out is not a flaw in the gun, but a flaw in my thinking. I was trying to get a 2011 style trigger without paying any money. One cannot simply buy a stock TS and expect it to behave exactly like a much more expensive gun (unfortunately). Had I thought more about that beforehand, I probably would have just saved up more and sent it in for custom work. I have learned a lot about my gun though and that's a good thing!

[Pistolpete9]

Atlas, you don't mention any sear work along with that trigger. Did you just use a factory sear with no modification? Also, excuse my ignorance, but why polish the strut on a SAO gun? Is it just normal practice for you or did it actually make a difference?

[zzt]

P, the creep that is present in an unmodified TS would annoy the heck out of me if I were shooting bullseye. I don't notice it one bit when shooting action, pins or plates. I can tell you this- no matter how much you spend or who does the work, you will never achieve the feel of a glass_rod_breaking, straight back pull of a good 1911 trigger.

[Pistolpete9]

That's good to know, because that's what I was going for. Looks like a good time to adjust my expectations and just get a good working trigger. I called CGW and he says they are about to release a new drop in hammer for the TS. I might wait on that and butcher the crap out of my current one in the mean time. Even if I can just make it run for another couple weeks I can get in a steel challenge shoot and a friendly match.

Edited June 15, 2016 by Pistolpete9