DocMedic Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 I do find it funny that if your trigger finger is too fast you'll get hammer follow due to the design of this trigger system. Just because I love to tinker I would like to try this out just to see how light you can get the trigger pull, but for almost 700 bucks, I'll leave this one on alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 Yes it is illegal! Troy covered this in the RO class I took. Can't state the rule but if he says no that means you can't since he helps write the rule book No...just no. If this is what you took from the class you need to go back and retake it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwray Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 Yes it is illegal! Troy covered this in the RO class I took. Can't state the rule but if he says no that means you can't since he helps write the rule bookNo...just no. If this is what you took from the class you need to go back and retake it.If a shooter's gun fires more than one round for each individual pull of the trigger the firearm is not legal in USPSA . I have seen a RO check people for this possibly happening. Your local club matches may allow you to do this but not at a major Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooldylocks Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 Yes it is illegal! Troy covered this in the RO class I took. Can't state the rule but if he says no that means you can't since he helps write the rule bookNo...just no. If this is what you took from the class you need to go back and retake it.If a shooter's gun fires more than one round for each individual pull of the trigger the firearm is not legal in USPSA . I have seen a RO check people for this possibly happening. Your local club matches may allow you to do this but not at a major Pretty sure he is more talking about the fact that just because Troy said it doesn't make it law. There is a rulebook for a reason.... you are new here so I'll cut you some slack, But Chuck knows what he's talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 I think it's illegal, but that's because it's against the rules. Not because I helped write the rule book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 So Chuck, if it is illegal does that mean you would arrest someone for using it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 Illegal under the rules of a game, not criminal code. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 I'd still arrest you, fuzzy handcuffs, plastic badge, cop mustache, I'd go the whole nine yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 Tony, I appreciate, and am flattered by your offer, but I must decline at this time. I was trying to goad Chuck into making my point that "illegal" gets tossed out when "contrary to the rules" would be more fitting. It is not illegal to engage a target through a barricade, it is against the rules of the game and is penalized per those rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooldylocks Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 (edited) Tony, I appreciate, and am flattered by your offer, but I must decline at this time. I was trying to goad Chuck into making my point that "illegal" gets tossed out when "contrary to the rules" would be more fitting. It is not illegal to engage a target through a barricade, it is against the rules of the game and is penalized per those rules. Don't try to be cutesie over semantics, especially when you are wrong. It doesn't make you look smart. Illegal has several definitions. Illegal (adj): 1: not allowed by the law; not legal. 2: not allowed per the rules in a game. Webstered. Edited May 2, 2016 by Gooldylocks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 Gooldylocks, thank you for putting me in my place with your quick wit and excellent copy and paste skills. Your defense of the word illegal in this context was stunning. But help me out, how exactly am I wrong? Do you not agree that in this case "contrary to the rules" would not be more accurate than "illegal"? The trigger at the heart of this thread is a legal modification to a rifle. The issue arises when that legal trigger is used in a game where it would appear to me to be contrary to the intent, and possibly the letter of the rules of many games. The use of the trigger in it's "binary" mode during competition would make it a rules violation, but terming it illegal would imply a violation of law. From the tone of your post it seems to me you have more to say, lets hear it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 Ouch. Definition 2. But I also wouldn't waste my money on one because that's the type of stuff that ATF randomly changes their minds on and makes it illegal under definition 1 as well. Always interesting when enforcement agencies are given the authority to determine what the law is they enforce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 Gooldylocks, thank you for putting me in my place with your quick wit and excellent copy and paste skills. Your defense of the word illegal in this context was stunning. But help me out, how exactly am I wrong? Do you not agree that in this case "contrary to the rules" would not be more accurate than "illegal"? The trigger at the heart of this thread is a legal modification to a rifle. The issue arises when that legal trigger is used in a game where it would appear to me to be contrary to the intent, and possibly the letter of the rules of many games. The use of the trigger in it's "binary" mode during competition would make it a rules violation, but terming it illegal would imply a violation of law. From the tone of your post it seems to me you have more to say, lets hear it! Looks like we crossed posts. You do realize that a valid definition of illegal is the second part, "2: not allowed per the rules in a game." which seems like exactly what you are saying it is. So how is illegal not valid, when that is exactly what you are saying it is? Just because you have a preconceived notion of what a word means, does not mean that is the correct or only definition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 Chuck, I am not going to go googling definitions for the word illegal. I don't think I need to debate with you that the most commonly accepted use for the word is in the context of "against the law", and not the far more esoteric application "against the rules of a game". There are many words that have multiple definitions and could be used in situations that they where not the best fit. This is an example. A similar but more inflammatory example would be using the word gay to replace cheerful. By the dictionary it would be a correct use, but by the most commonly understood meaning it would not. Calling a rules infraction in a game an illegal act is grossly overstating the importance of the game and at the same time lessens the importance of those acts that are truly illegal. I am certain that you have an image in your mind of a USPSA RO. Now imagine that RO yelling "illegal!" and pointing at you when you step outside the shooting box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooldylocks Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 Gooldylocks, thank you for putting me in my place with your quick wit and excellent copy and paste skills. Your defense of the word illegal in this context was stunning. But help me out, how exactly am I wrong? Do you not agree that in this case "contrary to the rules" would not be more accurate than "illegal"? The trigger at the heart of this thread is a legal modification to a rifle. The issue arises when that legal trigger is used in a game where it would appear to me to be contrary to the intent, and possibly the letter of the rules of many games. The use of the trigger in it's "binary" mode during competition would make it a rules violation, but terming it illegal would imply a violation of law. From the tone of your post it seems to me you have more to say, lets hear it! How are you wrong? Are you kidding me? You are wrong because the dictionary literally says that you are wrong. Merriam Webster says you are wrong. Illegal used in context of a competition environment (it could be a bass tourney or chess match for all I care) means against the rules. It says so RIGHT there. Chuck, I am not going to go googling definitions for the word illegal. I don't think I need to debate with you that the most commonly accepted use for the word is in the context of "against the law", and not the far more esoteric application "against the rules of a game". There are many words that have multiple definitions and could be used in situations that they where not the best fit. This is an example. A similar but more inflammatory example would be using the word gay to replace cheerful. By the dictionary it would be a correct use, but by the most commonly understood meaning it would not. Calling a rules infraction in a game an illegal act is grossly overstating the importance of the game and at the same time lessens the importance of those acts that are truly illegal. I am certain that you have an image in your mind of a USPSA RO. Now imagine that RO yelling "illegal!" and pointing at you when you step outside the shooting box. The commonly accepted use if this word in regards to every sporting event ever is a rules infraction. Maybe you don't watch any sports, or you would recognize phrases like "illegal block in the back" in football, "illegal movement" by a pitcher in baseball, "illegal hits" in volleyball... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 Might have to agree to disagree on this one. But I've heard legal used many, many times in regards to shooting competitions. Is this comp legal in tac optics? Is this holster legal for Production? Is it legal to disable the grip safety on my 1911 in Single Stack? Since I doubt any of those people think they are going to jail over a rules violation it seems they are asking if it is legal in the sense of definition two, not whether it's a crime or not. I think you have some preconceived notions regarding the usage of the word. Just because those are your perceptions does not define common usage. Nor do my perceptions. But, to your last example of an RO yelling, "Illegal!" for stepping out of a box. I would hope that no RO would be yelling at competitors. But have you ever asked an RO if you could shoot over or under a wall and had them say it's not legal to do so? If you haven't had that, or something similar, you really do need to get out and shoot more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgj3 Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 I can generally get on board with both sides of these type arguements, but in this case I am firmly in the "Chuck camp". "Illegal" is the perfect word in this context and many others when NOT referring to actual "laws". It's illegal to engage targets while touching outside the shooting area in USPSA. It's illegal to block the baseline in a baseball game. It's illegal to rough the kicker in a football game. Sure, you may use more words to say the same thing, but why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swordfish Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 lol my CMC did that when I first got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 (edited) I'm firmly in the Binary trigger is the stupidest innovation in a long time and anyone who owns one should be illeaglized, and contrary to the rules of common decency and humanity camp. Arguing semantics is like knitting with det cord. It doesn't make anything useful. It takes a bunch to set it off, but once set off it turns into nothing and leaves only scorched black marks and lasting impressions. Edited May 3, 2016 by kurtm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 Kurt, you pulled another gem of wisdom out, rolled it up and hit us (me) on the nose with it. I feel shame now for wasting time with pointless argument. I was just attempting to fill a slow time at the office with some argumentative discussion. I apologize and concede to the wisdom of the group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 Nobody likes a quitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shooterDrew Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 This trigger seems like it's got the potential to be wildly dangerous and almost completely lacking of any benefit at all. But at least it's crazy expensive. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Chuck, I am not going to go googling definitions for the word illegal. I don't think I need to debate with you that the most commonly accepted use for the word is in the context of "against the law", and not the far more esoteric application "against the rules of a game". There are many words that have multiple definitions and could be used in situations that they where not the best fit. This is an example. A similar but more inflammatory example would be using the word gay to replace cheerful. By the dictionary it would be a correct use, but by the most commonly understood meaning it would not. Calling a rules infraction in a game an illegal act is grossly overstating the importance of the game and at the same time lessens the importance of those acts that are truly illegal. I am certain that you have an image in your mind of a USPSA RO. Now imagine that RO yelling "illegal!" and pointing at you when you step outside the shooting box. Are we seriously having this debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daft Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 I hope to never be near anyone using this mod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garmil Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Just that video is enough to keep me from buying one. What a scam. Savings of almost a second? By shortening 3 split times? You might save 20 hundredths if you're slow. it was all in the transitions which I don't think the trigger has much to do with! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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