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.45 "minor" for Production?


mreed911

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Question for the experienced:

I was a police officer for ~5 years (mostly as a reserve, some full-time but now "just" a paramedic, I enjoy being on "the other side" better). During that time I carried and qualified with a Glock 21. I know that gun as if it's a part of my body.

I'm a C-class Single Stack shooter (less than a year in USPSA) who's about to seek a classification in Production and I had a 9mm handgun I'd been working with to start with. Recently, however, I've found a 45 load that meets minimum power factor but is otherwise 'minor,' which isn't a problem since all production is minor. It's Federal's Gold Medal Match, 185gr, 770fps.

Any thoughts on using this for an occasional production match? It's expensive ammo so it's not something I'd be buying but I've got a source to get some as part of a trade deal and it would probably be enough for a match or two. If it worked out well it might be enough to propel me into reloading and working up a similar load at better costs.

Thoughts on "45 minor" vs 9mm?

Edited by mreed911
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I’ve shot Production with my G21 for years, I reload, so my cost is low. I have to load to a pf of 150, to get the slide to return correctly. The recoil is less than a 9mm, which is good when your friend Arthur is in both wrist. I use 200 SWC, mainly Bayou Bullets, and some Black Bullets. I love that big hole. I recently had Pike (http://mod1firearms.com) add a Trijicon RMR to my G21 for Carry Optics, and my G19 for Steel and GSSF. The G19 was my EDC for a few months.

Sadly Life gave me a kick in the A$$, and I discoverd I have Neuropathy. It’s not a good idea, to be running with a loaded .45, when you start to lose your balance. So I sold my G19.

I still plan on shooting Steel and GSSF (Open) with my G21. I sent a Certificate to GSSF for another G21, they’re just like a kid, you can’t beat them.

You will enjoy shooting your G21 in Production.

Edited by atbarr
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There is the factor of the bigger hole on target. A 9mm hole near a higher scoring line could count for the higher score if it was made by a .45.

That also goes the other way with no shoots...5he chances of that bigger hole making a big difference in your match finish or clsssification are pretty slim at best...

As for shooting a 45 in Production, why not? I personally know a GM who made GM in Production using a G21...

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Go for it. You are at no disadvantage. If you decide you like it, you can purchase remanufactured ammo for much less than the Federal GMM. You can also have ammo custom loaded for you. Around me there is a gun shop that reloads everything under the sun for very reasonable prices. There are also two gunsmiths who do custom reloading.

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If all you have to make is a 125 PF you can make a true "wussy" load for a .45 ACP. A 230 grain bullet at 575 fps makes it with room to spare, and with recoil like a .22LR. You would likely have to get a different recoil spring for gun function. A 200 grain slug only has to go to 650 fps. They can be sweet... if you address the recoil spring.

The only real drawback is when shooting poppers or knock-down plates. You can't really go "bang-ting". You might have to go "bang-wait-ting" :roflol:

But if you like the way the gun feels and shoots..... why not go for it. :devil:

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In my experience, your 45 will be an advantage for steel that has to be knocked down. I started shooting knock down steel with my P226 and 115gr Blazer rounds. That definitely was bang...wait...wait some more...bang. It was better if you hit them high. I switched to 147gr rounds @ 144PF and the targets went down faster. When I used my 1911 45 with 200gr @ 144PF, the targets dropped ASAP. I've never noticed a difference in dropping power for plates or pins between 200 and 230gr 45 slugs. My 180gr 40 rounds loaded to 172PF drop steel almost as fast as the 45.

BTW, I stick to 140-144PF for my light 45 loads because they work with the same 14lb recoil spring I use for bullseye rounds and Major PF. You can go a lot lighter than 140 with a lighter spring, but you'll have to change out the spring when you want to shoot Major of factory.

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I shot .45 for a couple years. 185 with fast powder at about 133 PF. It ran a stock M&P just fine. I stopped only because of cost...otherwise I would still be doing it. I never hit a no-shoot, but I did get a few going the other way.

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I shoot 40 minor in Production full time. .45 would be a little expensive but there's no reason it can't work. My only initial concern would be that the gun is properly sprung for the lighter ammo.

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Folks are starting to figure out how soft the 40 minor is. Buddy of mine compared his 40 minor load in his Trojan to my 9mm load in my Trojan. He was still shooting about 5 or 6 pf over me, and was still considerably softer. I've shot 45 minor on the higher end of the minor spectrum with 200gr SWC's and WST, and it was soft, but nowhere near as soft as that 40 minor was. Also I never tried to work the 45acp down to the lower end of the minor power factor.

Your gonna need a heck of a lot lighter recoil spring to get the gun to cycle reliably. And with the Glock 21, the slide mass is going to probably be the limiting factor. With such a light recoils spring to run, and such a heavy mass its going to cycle very slow. If you can have the slide lightened or buy and aftermarket lightened slide, I'd recommend doing it. Zev Tech is great when it comes to that.

But try running 185gr plated bullets with a faster powder such as N320, N310, or Solo 1000.... See if you can get around 750fps or so (near 140ish pf) and if the gun still cycles. Buy an guide rod where you can use different springs and buy the whole weight range available. Keep them marked. The powder selection seems to make a very significant difference in the feel.

If your just looking for a good sub major load to play with and not really trying to push the limits, a 200gr extreme plated SWC with about 4.0~4.4gr (work with it) of Winchester Super Target is a pretty soft load. No where near as soft as a good 9mm minor load, but way softer than the full power 45 major stuff.

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I shot .45 for a couple years. 185 with fast powder at about 133 PF. It ran a stock M&P just fine. I stopped only because of cost...otherwise I would still be doing it. I never hit a no-shoot, but I did get a few going the other way.

That's what prompted my post. I was pasting a Super Senior shooters targets this past WE and I never saw anyone use caliber to cut higher lines as much as he did. I didn't see it work against him.

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I'm a big fan of 40 minor, not that I'm any good at shooting, but it's extremely pleasant to shoot.

If all you have to make is a 125 PF you can make a true "wussy" load for a .45 ACP. A 230 grain bullet at 575 fps makes it with room to spare, and with recoil like a .22LR. You would likely have to get a different recoil spring for gun function. A 200 grain slug only has to go to 650 fps. They can be sweet... if you address the recoil spring.

The only real drawback is when shooting poppers or knock-down plates. You can't really go "bang-ting". You might have to go "bang-wait-ting" :roflol:

But if you like the way the gun feels and shoots..... why not go for it. :devil:

The only problem with those 230gr minor loads is factoring in the arc as you lob them downrange. They have about the same flight path as a Titleist coming off my 4-iron (and are just as easy to track in flight). :)

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It all comes down to what you shoot best. I tried .40 minor a few years ago with a Stock 2, and while it shot really soft it the slide just felt too sluggish to me. I also had some reliability issues since the gun had to be sprung lighter.

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Hello: 200 grain semi wad cutters going 750FPS is a soft shooting 45acp round. Easily makes minor but still will cycle a pistol great. A 9mm is the best option for production since ammo is cheaper and a wide choice of bullet weights. In the end it is what you enjoy shooting. Thanks, Eric

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USPSA steel has to be calibrated to a 125 floor. In fact, the actual calibration ammo is down to 115. If you are busting steel with a minor 9mm, and it doesn't fall, that's a hit issue, or you are nowhere near the floor. And don't wait for steel to fall

2. Prior to commencement of a match, the calibration ammunition must be chronographed using the procedure specified in Appendix C2. The calibra-tion ammunition, when tested through each designated handgun, should achieve a power factor between 115.0 and 125.0 to qualify. 9x19mm is the recommended caliber.

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9x45, some steel activates other targets. If the steel falls slowly, you have a choice. You can stand there and wait for it, or you can shoot another target while you are waiting for the other to activate. That's exactly what I do for swingers, but for activated targets that give you one 2 second chance to hit them, I wait. My 40 major load using 180gr bullets knock steel down faster than any of the Production 9 shooters.

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The reasons it's not popular are cost, velocity and ease of making PF.

9mm beats all others on cost hands down, plus you can pick up cheap factory stuff that fits the PF. You can't do that with a 45acp or even a 40.

Your velocity will be lower than with a 9mm and some don't like it.

The big reason is it's a lot harder to make a 130 PF with a 45. Finding a good bullet that gets below a 145 PF is harder. Not impossible but it takes a bit more work.

There's no reason why you can't compete with full power loads in Production you will just still score minor and will have to handle more recoil.

If you want to use it with lower recoiling loads, load a 185gr, or lighter they can be found, bullet at 700 f/s for a 130 PF and have fun. This is the same as Bullseye shooters used, they called it soft ball loads and they can be as accurate as anything. I've done it in Production with a 45 revolver and it's fun.

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