Jump to content
Brian Enos's Forums... Maku mozo!
ATMester

1-4 variable vs .... for a shtf AR

Recommended Posts

Just trying to get some advice on AR sights for a shtf AR.

How would a variable power illuminated 1-4 scope stand up against other sights, red dots, holo sights pros-cons etc.

My Viper PST is not exactly daylight visible in the desert here, but on the flip side, it does have some magnification (and some weight...) don't know anything about how rugged it is.

Wondering if there are much better choices when the zombies (lol) coming.

While I am aware that this is not a "prepper" forum, and my thread might get locked, but I am also aware that there are a lot of knowledgeable person here who does know a thing or two...

thanks,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I probably don't qualify as a "knowledgeable person" but if I could only have one rifle and things might hit the fan, it would have a low powered variable and flip up irons. Also, daylight bright illumination is wildly over valued..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with the daylight illumination being over rated. I have a Burris 1-4 with the older original bdc reticle, and it shows up better on cardboard targets when it's off. I don't even put batteries in it anymore. Not sure how it would show up on a zombie, especially if it was wearing a black shirt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just trying to get some advice on AR sights for a shtf AR.

How would a variable power illuminated 1-4 scope stand up against other sights, red dots, holo sights pros-cons etc.

My Viper PST is not exactly daylight visible in the desert here, but on the flip side, it does have some magnification (and some weight...) don't know anything about how rugged it is.

Wondering if there are much better choices when the zombies (lol) coming.

While I am aware that this is not a "prepper" forum, and my thread might get locked, but I am also aware that there are a lot of knowledgeable person here who does know a thing or two...

thanks,

My personal experience with a Viper PST 1-4x in shoot houses and out to 400 yards is that it seems like a great scope for that wide range of engagements. Seemed very fast in CQB style shooting and my squadmates thought so also. I have doubts about needing illumination for many situations, but that is only my guess and probably not worth much.

Edited by michael1778

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When the poo starts to fly it would be better to be somewhere poo free than to try and shoot the poo. If you where cornered and could not flee the poo, it seems to me you would be up close and personal to the doo doo, and a red dot might be more the ticket. Avoid the fans at all cost, they scatter the poo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After reading the comments here about daylight visible illumination is overrated, decided to go to the garage and put a black T-shirt over a dummy. ( just to see it with my own eyes, not because I felt like arguing...)

Excuse me for the poor quality of the pictures, but holding a rifle and trying take a picture with the phone, well it wasn't that easy for me.

One with the illumination (max setting) and one without the illumination. Black reticle on black clothes...well, you will just guessing not aiming...

In my opinion after this little experiment, daylight visible illumination is a must have.

Nice to have magnification for distant shooting, but being able to aim at close ranges is a must.

post-7530-0-73005200-1461127276_thumb.jp

post-7530-0-61804600-1461127286_thumb.jp

Edited by ATMester

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For a SHTF variable theres only one that I would consider suitable. My general rule of thumb is it must be very rugged, and not reliant on batteries and daytime illumination is a must. The Trijicon TR24 is the only variable that meets those needs. In almost 20 yrs of competition and military and security work, a dim reticle or no illumination has at times been a hindrance. Most notably while engaging targets from a well lit shooting position into a shaded or darkened environment like a woodline or dwelling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When the poo starts to fly it would be better to be somewhere poo free than to try and shoot the poo. If you where cornered and could not flee the poo, it seems to me you would be up close and personal to the doo doo, and a red dot might be more the ticket. Avoid the fans at all cost, they scatter the poo.

I'd add that anything with glass is going to be a bad idea in an CQB poo fight. The poo spatter is going to smear and leave streaks all over an optic. I don't know why but none of the tactical optics manufacturers have wipers built into their scopes. If poop is a concern it might be advisable to stick with iron sights.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aimpoint PRO is what I have on my SHTF er.... Factory rifle. 2 moa dot works pretty well for me. And don't forget a bright white light for those night matches.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After reading the comments here about daylight visible illumination is overrated, decided to go to the garage and put a black T-shirt over a dummy. ( just to see it with my own eyes, not because I felt like arguing...)

Excuse me for the poor quality of the pictures, but holding a rifle and trying take a picture with the phone, well it wasn't that easy for me.

One with the illumination (max setting) and one without the illumination. Black reticle on black clothes...well, you will just guessing not aiming...

In my opinion after this little experiment, daylight visible illumination is a must have.

Nice to have magnification for distant shooting, but being able to aim at close ranges is a must.

But, you're totally screwed if they have red shirts on!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For a SHTF rifle, you should probably go with an Aimpoint. If you want magnification, then an Elcan or Acog. That's if S actually HTF.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After reading the comments here about daylight visible illumination is overrated, decided to go to the garage and put a black T-shirt over a dummy. ( just to see it with my own eyes, not because I felt like arguing...)

Excuse me for the poor quality of the pictures, but holding a rifle and trying take a picture with the phone, well it wasn't that easy for me.

One with the illumination (max setting) and one without the illumination. Black reticle on black clothes...well, you will just guessing not aiming...

In my opinion after this little experiment, daylight visible illumination is a must have.

Nice to have magnification for distant shooting, but being able to aim at close ranges is a must.

To be fair, the scenario in your pictures isn't very representative of what I call "daylight", at least as it relates to the sun or being outdoors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I won't claim to be an expert, so in my totally uninformed armchair opinion:

1. If I were to have a totally 100% SHTF carbine, it would probably wear an Aimpoint or similar (ie, Triji MRO, EOTech, etc.) since that will be super fast pointing at both closer "hallway" distances and longer point blank range (ie, 230ish yards and under). Speed is a tactic, and center shots don't have to be aimed to the gnats you-know-what to stop the threat. Throw on some quality yet lightweight folding BUIS (ie, ARMS polymers) and a quality flashlight, and you're GTG. Let's face it, if the evil zombie is beyond 200 yards, I'm probably going to be hiding from and avoiding him rather than pissing his buddies off and giving away my location... so magnification is not only moot in this scenario, it's adding unnecessary weight and complicated machinery that may break.

2. More specifically to the OP question, I recently switched from a 1-4x PST to a 1-5x XTRii, and I'm not looking back. It is better in every respect. I won't bad mouth the PST at all because it is a good scope, but the XTR is a great scope for a reasonable increase in price. (Admittedly, there are other good choices out there as well, such as the Triji 1-4x which is tough is nails and doesn't need batteries.)

3. Or you can have the best of both worlds and run a variable on top (zeroed at 200ish yards) backed up by an MRD on a 45 mount (zeroed at 10ish yards). Well, that and a good torch. Zombies hate torches.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After reading the comments here about daylight visible illumination is overrated, decided to go to the garage and put a black T-shirt over a dummy. ( just to see it with my own eyes, not because I felt like arguing...)

Excuse me for the poor quality of the pictures, but holding a rifle and trying take a picture with the phone, well it wasn't that easy for me.

One with the illumination (max setting) and one without the illumination. Black reticle on black clothes...well, you will just guessing not aiming...

In my opinion after this little experiment, daylight visible illumination is a must have.

Nice to have magnification for distant shooting, but being able to aim at close ranges is a must.

Agreed day light illumination allows you to shoot at red dot speeds because it allows you to see the reticle faster. Not over rated a must have on a serious gun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While also a fan of the Burris 1-5 XTRII a must for me on a work gun would be covered turrets with BUIS deployed. Currently the XTRII is not capped so it would be a no go for me. All my so called serious carbines run Aimpoints on cantilever mounts so I can run the 3X magnifier if needed. I believe this is a much more rugged and proven option.

Dont forget the targets will be large.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In 2016, XTRIIs get capped turrets. I still keep the MTAC 1-4 on my carbine that would fill that role.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still would rather have an Aimpoint with a 4-year battery life versus who knows how long they last on a Vortex Variable scope.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After reading the comments here about daylight visible illumination is overrated, decided to go to the garage and put a black T-shirt over a dummy. ( just to see it with my own eyes, not because I felt like arguing...)

Excuse me for the poor quality of the pictures, but holding a rifle and trying take a picture with the phone, well it wasn't that easy for me.

One with the illumination (max setting) and one without the illumination. Black reticle on black clothes...well, you will just guessing not aiming...

In my opinion after this little experiment, daylight visible illumination is a must have.

Nice to have magnification for distant shooting, but being able to aim at close ranges is a must.

To be fair, the scenario in your pictures isn't very representative of what I call "daylight", at least as it relates to the sun or being outdoors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After reading the comments here about daylight visible illumination is overrated, decided to go to the garage and put a black T-shirt over a dummy. ( just to see it with my own eyes, not because I felt like arguing...)

Excuse me for the poor quality of the pictures, but holding a rifle and trying take a picture with the phone, well it wasn't that easy for me.

One with the illumination (max setting) and one without the illumination. Black reticle on black clothes...well, you will just guessing not aiming...

In my opinion after this little experiment, daylight visible illumination is a must have.

Nice to have magnification for distant shooting, but being able to aim at close ranges is a must.

To be fair, the scenario in your pictures isn't very representative of what I call "daylight", at least as it relates to the sun or being outdoors.

You are right. Those picture meant to show what it looks like without illumination.

In bright daylight outside in the Nevada desert the illumination is not visible.

This never meant a brand beating thread, it is a good scope for playing games - I guess but I want to have some input on things what would work when Shtf.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Key thing to remember SHTF is there isn't warranty service available. And use the general rule one is none and two is one. Buy quality solid built gear, and buy two of everything. Run it, put it thru the paces till something breaks. That way you know what will break.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For a SHTF variable theres only one that I would consider suitable. My general rule of thumb is it must be very rugged, and not reliant on batteries and daytime illumination is a must. The Trijicon TR24 is the only variable that meets those needs. In almost 20 yrs of competition and military and security work, a dim reticle or no illumination has at times been a hindrance. Most notably while engaging targets from a well lit shooting position into a shaded or darkened environment like a woodline or dwelling.

this. I have a Tr24 on my 3 gun rifle, because there are no batteries to worry about, it glows in the dark for another 15 years, it auto adjusts brightness if I want, and I can instantly switch between red dot like magnification (1x) and zoom in to see at distance. it's rugged, I've competed with it for years, thrown it, submerged it, shot it in the rain, shot it in the dark, shot it urban prone, never stopped. Mine has the triangle reticle and I've learned it's drops and to dial it in, so I can be quickly accurate at 5 feet or 500 yards. Anything that runs like that and runs 100% at a match will be what I grab for a match with a severe prize table. But I'll run it in open with no mag restrictions, and a couple of Surefire mags filled with slightly different ammo ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still would rather have an Aimpoint with a 4-year battery life versus who knows how long they last on a Vortex Variable scope.

True but when the battery dies on an aimpoint its useless not so with a scope you still have a black reticle.

Pat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

True but when you drop your rifle on the scope then you have nothing at all. If your running an AImpoint right there in front of you are your irons, deployed and ready to go. If it ever gets to SHTF guess we will all find out fast what works and what doesn't. We can what if this to death. I think its safe to say that Aimpoints and ACOGs have proven themselves to be best suited for the task.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

True but when you drop your rifle on the scope then you have nothing at all.

Not neccessarily. Ive dropped and witnessed some pretty significant impacts to several differant brands of modern variable power scopes that continued to perform after the fact. Good ones from the major players are tougher than a lot of folks give them credit for. And theres no reason you cant have back up irons with a variable scope.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...