Do you shoot better when you are with better shooters?

[chase214]

I don't shoot as well because I try to go as fast and most of the time blow the match

[perttime]

On 8/2/2018 at 8:47 AM, Smithcity said:

... watch how they break a stage down and conquer it. ...

 

I'll probably keep an eye on what others do during walkthrough. I usually shoot in a low cap Division, though, so sometimes I need to pick different options to avoid standing reloads.

Once I'm on the line, I do what I can, to get the hits.

[jkrispies]

4 hours ago, chase214 said:

I don't shoot as well because I try to go as fast and most of the time blow the match

If this is true then your mindset needs to be flipped.  Don’t try to beat them, but rather learn from them and accept growth as an incremental process that happens over time. I don’t ever try to beat anyone. I just shoot my own game and let the results fall where they may.  But I’m ALWAYS watching and learning.  

[Boudreaux78]

I agree with the last post. It is good to push yourself, but not trying to beat or keep up with others. Shoot your game, the best you can! The rest will work out in the wash as the saying goes.

[jkrispies]

2 minutes ago, Boudreaux78 said:

I agree with the last post. It is good to push yourself, but not trying to beat or keep up with others. Shoot your game, the best you can! The rest will work out in the wash as the saying goes.

A little story to expand on this...  A few years ago I started shooting Steel Challenge at a new club that was just beginning to offer SC.  For a solid year I finished HOA every match... by a lot.  About 6 months in, I realized that I was very literally competing against nobody but myself.  That was a huge A-Ha moment for me.  I then really started being self-aware of my performance, my data, building on my strengths while working on my weaknesses... and not worrying at all about what place I finished or who I beat, because the point was totally moot.  Nowadays I shoot at a different club against much better shooters where I consistently get beaten, and I don't care at all-- and I'm a far better shooter now where I'm losing than when I was winning month in and month out.  Just shoot your own game, and you'll be a better athlete for it.

[stick]

2 hours ago, jkrispies said:

A little story to expand on this...  A few years ago I started shooting Steel Challenge at a new club that was just beginning to offer SC.  For a solid year I finished HOA every match... by a lot.  About 6 months in, I realized that I was very literally competing against nobody but myself.  That was a huge A-Ha moment for me.  I then really started being self-aware of my performance, my data, building on my strengths while working on my weaknesses... and not worrying at all about what place I finished or who I beat, because the point was totally moot.  Nowadays I shoot at a different club against much better shooters where I consistently get beaten, and I don't care at all-- and I'm a far better shooter now where I'm losing than when I was winning month in and month out.  Just shoot your own game, and you'll be a better athlete for it.

I will piggy back what John said because I couldn't agree more.  Did you get the 25k check for your first place finish?  All you need to worry about is your performance.  You know your limitations and what you are capable of doing at matches.  Shooting outside your norm will ingrain bad habits that will take months to break.

[boudreux]

I feel like I shoot better when I am squadded with better shooters. I always try to squad with guys that are equally or more skilled than myself. Classification doesn't always matter as I regularly see B shooters placing higher than A and M shooters at local matches so you can't always go by that. I tend to squad with friends as a friendly competition always pushes me and makes me focus a little more. 

[NateTSU]

Yes I tend to shoot better when squaded with top level shooters but it's from watching their stage breakdown/plan. My level of skill is what it is on matchday, I just see my sights and call my shots. 

[Rosswoodford]

On 4/19/2016 at 4:21 PM, mreed911 said:

There's another thread around here about this, but I'll say this: as a C class shooter chasing B, I tend to do better in squads with A & B shooters. I can see a few things they're doing differently than I am. The M/GM shooters are doing too much too fast for me to follow quite yet.

That said, I'd rather be squadded with a M/GM from my Division than A's or B's from another Division. Shooting Single Stack, I'll watch and see if how they run a stage matched up with my plan and take tips that way.

This. So much this. (I realize this post is like 2 years old but it’s exactly how I prefer to be squadded, also shooting single stack)

[IHAVEGAS]

Shot with a GM super senior last week who was shooting the same division. He does not have the foot and hand-eye speed he once did so what he does is done by technique and precision. Great opportunity. 

[Sneexies]

Shooting with much better shooters makes me feel like I have to shoot much faster and I usually end up shooting worse, but it also helps since you can talk to them and ask them questions. They're usually very willing to help.

[MrT_shootsAcz]

Much that needed to be said already has.  One thing I will note is not everyone learns things or processes the same way.  What works for some or even most likely won’t work for all.  To me there are a couple things here... 

1.  Figure out how you learn best.  Are you visual, auditory, do you need to apply a move or tactic yourself to really get it?  You will see any difference in opinion on these responses can likely be attributed to the fact that not everyone learns the same.

2.  Understand that while your strength in learning may be visual for example, you still need to understand the why behind what you’re seeing.  Sometimes that’s easily figured out, but sometimes it is even easier or better to listen to the GM  shooter explain.

3.  Put it all together.  If you just watch a Ferrari go fast you don’t really know how to do that.  You need all elements of learning to get to where you want to go.  Ask the why and how to go with the visual.

4.  Put in the time practicing with purpose.  From what I have been exposed to Charlie Perez captures this piece best in his teachings and book.

*It helps to be very analytical in how you like to think about things too.  

I can go into more depth but don’t want to be to repetitive.

 

 

[IVC]

I started on a squad with 3 Ms and at least 5 As (we had 5 Ms and a GM last weekend) and have never changed - I figured out early that I can only learn from people who are better than me. My goal is to learn and get better, not to beat random guys. Beating guys is the result of getting better, not the motivation for getting better. . 

 

 

[JJB05]

Always want to shoot with better shooters than me....i am very competitive and they will beat me and it will force me to get better or quit and I am not a quitter.  

[Adamj]

I have to agree with JJB05 anytine I'm competing with more skilled people it drives me to get better. You also have the benefit of the knowledge base to draw some advice from. 

[mvmojo]

I like to shoot with those that are better than me because 9 times out of 10 I can get some friendly pointers.  I'll even ask them to watch me run a stage and tell me how I can improve.  Most seem to really like helping!  The only time I don't like shooting with really good shooters is when they are trying so hard to show up the other guy that they spend a lot of time arguing about stage design, whether gaming the stage is legal or not, etc.  For them it may part of the game, but for me, listening to a bunch of arguing and bickering takes the fun out of it.

[jskd82]

I think in anything you improve faster when going against better competition.

[MattInTheHat]

Shooting with better shooters is almost always a benefit, but don't get married to following their plans. Many may have a particular skill that informs their plan but is disaster for you. Recognize where they have found efficiencies but also look for areas they didn't consider. If you're great off the draw there might be an opportunity to maximize that they discarded. If you have fast feet, recognize where they are allowing for their slowness.

 

 

[XRING1911]

I feel I perform better with better shooters. Just by watching their stage approach and attack.

[rowdyb]

Yes. And similarly you shoot worse when you're with less skilled shooters.

[highhope]

yes, even when I shoot production, still want to squad with open GMs

[Sdlrodeo]

Yep. Had opportunities to squad with super squads a few times. Great experience because they were great humans. However, I too Made the mistake of trying to keep up with much higher level shooters. I will echo that the stage planning can also be problematic as well if it is so complex that you forget the plan mid run. Still I like to see what can be done and how far off the pro pace I am. Or sometimes it’s depressing. Ha. 

[PlayFront36]

Short answer: yes.

 

Long answer: it kind of depends.  When I shoot with a bunch of Open or Limited guys their speed and course planning affect how I plan to shoot a stage.  But that being said their reload points (if any) are much different than mine in Production.  If Im with a couple GM Production shooters I really see the benefit.  

[jsoupene]

I definitely find it beneficial to shoot with shooters above my skill level. It is a great learning experience watching them up close and seeing how they handle the stage. If they don't mind, then I also will record them on a few stages and then I can take it back home on the computer and compare with my video to see where they are actually beating me at. And just like everyone always says it's transitions, entries and exits NOT their foot speed.

[rootacres]

On 4/19/2016 at 4:01 PM, bigdaddyZ said:

I'm a "C" class shooter...only shoot limited class...I have found when I am squaded with shooters above my class I tend to get intemidated and shoot poorly...but shoot a lil better when I'm with average shooters...anyone else?

 

This will be my 4th season now playing the USPSA game. I found myself early on trying to chase the faster guys and causing a lot of problems. Over time I tried to catch things they were doing differently to help me improve. I made Master in Production half way through last season and the biggest takeaway I learned from the faster guys, and it took me a long time to realize this, is that what really starts separating people is what they are doing when the gun isn't going off. Footwork, mag changes, entries, exits etc. Keep shooting with the better shooters. They will teach you far more and will help push the limits of your capabilities.