How Not Get Pressured By Others?

[Nik Habicht]

When you guys figure this out, let me know.

My wife is pseudo interested in shooting at the moment.  I'd love to get her into shooting matches with me, instead of all that time being apart.  I'm sure she would start out in C class, but she has done some plate rack runs that are pretty darn good.  Her accuracy is darn good, as she doesn't have her ego all tied up in a fast run, she rarely misses, and I know speed would come in time.

I just can't get her to overcome her fear of shooting in front of a group. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

John,

Practice match or stage at the range with a few select buddies? People she's met off the range before and is comfortable with? Followed by the accompanying you to a match or two to watch? Just brainstorming here ---- my other half has no interest in anything competitive........

[tfs]

Just do your own thing and enjoy! Best of luck!

[iweiny]

When you guys figure this out, let me know.

My wife is pseudo interested in shooting at the moment.  I'd love to get her into shooting matches with me, instead of all that time being apart.  I'm sure she would start out in C class, but she has done some plate rack runs that are pretty darn good.  Her accuracy is darn good, as she doesn't have her ego all tied up in a fast run, she rarely misses, and I know speed would come in time.

I just can't get her to overcome her fear of shooting in front of a group. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I still remember my wifes first stage of her first match. She drew, took aim, and I could feel the croud thinking "man this is going to take a while". Then after she put a 1" group in the center of the A zone on the first target people kinda realized "man she can shoot". And that was the end of that. During the scoreing it was "2 Alpha, 2 Alpha, 2 Alpha..." you get the picture...

In the end she ended up beating a lot of the other new shooters who where their for the "orientation" class because even though she might have been a bit slower she got her points...

As far as getting her to try IPSC, I think she was not so worried about looking bad as she was worried about being safe. She admits just now that she did not think she would like it. We started shooting a PPC league and she knew from that, she liked the competition. She liked knowing how well she was doing week to week. Before league and IPSC we would go to the range and throw rounds and say "I shot pretty good tonight" or "I shot like crap tonight" but she never thought she was that good. Then we shot a round of PPC and she found out that she was indeed better than all the guys we were shooting with! Which is what we had all been telling her all along.

Perhaps if your wife would like to talk to mine PM me and I will put them in touch via email. My wife is absolutly hooked... And I enjoy her being there, it really is cool.

I am a little dissapointed to hear all the women speak as though men make their experience on the range difficult or stressful. My wife in particular would love to see more women out to shoot with but does not seem to mind "shooting with the guys" (her words)...

Regarding getting advice from people. I tried to say in my last post, that it happens to everyone. Hopefully I have not offended anyone by saying I may not take their advice... But when one gets conflicting opinions, one must think about everything he has been told and draw his own conclusions. That was my only point.

Ira

[SRT Driver]

Then, some are like "I want you to be the high lady at next match! This girl always win but you can beat her!".

That's nice but how about this match!!! A friend told a another shooter once, "WOW!! you look soooo smooth and fast today, you're going to be though to beat!"

The shooter tanked the rest of the match and my friend beat him.

Guys I have beaten started to asking me "what was your points?" to see if he did better than me.

This is also a way to "get into your head. Don't pay any attention to the squad scorekeepers. Let them wonder what they need to beat you and keep them wondering.

Don't chase, play your own game and keep everyone chasing you.

I like the IPod idea!!!

[Rikarin]

..........................

Don't be afraid to be "anti-social" at a match you care about. Looking back on it, over the years, the more social I became (at big matches), the worst I did. I was at my absolute best when I showed up at the match, plugged my "best of" tape into my head, and shot the match - exactly as I knew I should.

This did it. When I don't chat and just image the stage over and over, its better. There's no shift from "be social, open to other people" to "focused and IN the stage" therefore less nervousness.

If you ignore it, someone will think you're an ice queen. Both approaches can lead to the "b!tch" label.

You are so right, I can not make everybody happy anyway and if I want to win and that makes me a bitch, I just decided to volunteerly become a bitch.

Rikarin, the thing to remember is that the helpful people make the same comments to ALL new shooters. As a female shooter, it's how we react that's causing the stress. With time, your reactions will change.

Yes, I want to be open for new way of doing things but I haven't even digested and made it happen what Matt taught me in the class. there's no way I can take other shooter's advices. Besides, I have my stages video taped and review afetrwards, most of the advice I'd be given, I myself will discover anyway and discoverying myself leads to correcting much easier and faster.

OK, guys who read this and shoot at Richimond (Larry, Billy, Alvin, etc etc ), Maybe I will be iPod-ing, maybe I will sitting alone, imaging the stage over and over, its no personal but I will become really anti-social fro now on

I met so many really cool and nice People at the Richimond and its kinda bummin but there's always after match beer for socializing.

[MikeFoley]

You are so right, I can not make everybody happy anyway and if I want to win and that makes me a bitch,  I just decided to volunteerly become a bitch.  

That is a cool statement!  You should make it your tagline.  It sounds like you have sorted through this and found some inner peace.

but there's always after match beer for socializing.

There's another part for your tagline, I like it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Go get 'em!

[Rikarin]

I am a little dissapointed to hear all the women speak as though men make their experience on the range difficult or stressful.  My wife in particular would love to see more women out to shoot with but does not seem to mind "shooting with the guys" (her words)...

Ira

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wish I have husband to attend together, then it will be bit easier. Its not that men makes it difficult. The social dynamics of a lone woman in a big group of men is the difficult part. Having "my man" in same group would give me unconcious support and protection, because other guys are more careful when opening mouths.

I am so glad she is enjoying! You guys shoot at Richimond right???

[iweiny]

I am so glad she is enjoying!  You guys shoot at Richimond right???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sunday was our second time there. We like Richmond but the stages are more difficult and our first time we were pretty overwhelmed. It was fun, but overwhelming... This time was just a lot of fun!

Anyway, we had a great time, and thanks to all who put on the match. I am sure we will see you more as time goes on.

See you out there,

Ira

[reneet]

I like shooting because it is competition with myself.  I enjoy doing problem solving and  constantly improving myself.  As a result, I started to place myself in top 5 in the division, sometimes shooting better than people 2 classes up.  But for me, this is the proof of how I am improving rather than who I beaten.

This is a great way to look at the type of competition we do. It better allows you to deal with any inner turmoil being caused by any number of factors.

Then problem started to happen.

Guys I have beaten started to asking me "what was your points?" to see if he did better than me.  When I have a bad stage, so many people decide to be experts and trying to criticize me in disguise as "help".  (and usually a wrong technique too).

Then, some are like "I want you to be the high lady at next match!  This girl always win but you can beat her!".

This is a difficult situation. How to handle it depends upon your ability to filter what's being said. There are certain people that I personally will seek advice and/or criticism from. I'll usually politely listen to unsolicited help, thank the person and then promptly dump it in the trash bin.

The mind games crap just totally pi$$e$ me off. I typically shoot very well in that state of mind. All I can advise here for the time being is to try to blow it off.

Slight drift ~ Reminds me of some A$$hole who challenged Kay many years ago at a local club match to beat what he thought was a smoking run on a speed shoot. She told him not only would she beat it but by at least 2 seconds. She took 3 seconds off of his run and he never challenged her again.

Now, it became so much about other people's match.  I don't like this.  I am seriously thinking about listening to iPod during the match so that no one will talk to me and I can isolate myself, so that I can just concentrate about me. 

Couldn't hurt to give it a try and see if it works for you.

But a my first big match is coming up in 2 weeks and I am now so pressured to perform, already nervous, and I am almost certain I would tense up!!!

How are your experience dealing this kind of stuff?  How not get pressured and nervous facing a big match????  I certainly re-start ( I am slacking) meditation everyday, but anything else???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not sure how to help you avoid feeling pressured other than remember that you are there to compete with yourself. Being nervous is not necessarily a bad thing. I still get the butterflies before a stage several times a year. It's usually on the 1st stage of a match where all I want to do is put in a solid performance. With all the extra adrenaline flowing, I think about it as sort of pulling back on the reins just a tad bit so I don't derail.

Feel free to add me to your PM list, always happy to help if I can.

Renee T

[MikeFoley]

I wish I have husband to attend together, then it will be bit easier.  Its not that men makes it difficult.  The social dynamics of a lone woman in a big group of men is the difficult part. Having "my man" in same group would give me unconcious support and protection, because other guys are more careful when opening mouths. 

Light humor mode on.

Careful what you wish for. You should play harder to get. Perhaps a male escort service can provide you with a shooting companion.

Light humor mode off. No flame war please. I don't want to be the next poor male example in this thread. I wish shooting was more 50/50 female/male, honestly.

I get a little upset whenever some guys use the rough language, not just around women, but around the juniors and spectators. All of the female shooters I have met can represent our sport anytime IMO. They are professional, driven, and fun to talk with. Notice I said talk with, not to.

[Rikarin]

Careful what you wish for.  You should play harder to get.  Perhaps a male escort service can provide you with a shooting companion.

Buhahahha! I can see when you have siginificant others shooting together, dealing with her/him gets you too. So, I was just wishing not wanting really.

[eric nielsen]

What passes for acceptable behavior happens because people accept it.

Once we had a group of shooters from another county come to our range and engage in trash talk amongst themselves. The volume would rise but then often the noise would die back down. Just takes one person's decision to put a damper on behavior that's getting out of bounds. Whether that one person is a contender to win every match, or he's a big strong dude, or he's the club president, or he's a dad with a Junior shooter, one person CAN make a difference.

If you have influence, use it. Guys may laugh at first so let them, but within 5 minutes you'll see, people will behave. "Why don't we just let her shoot?" is one way to say it. Just a simple *quiet down* motion. Or a finger to your lips, words don't have to be spoken. I've seen it many times.

One time at work I accidently let fly with an F-Bomb. Within 30 minutes people who NEVER cussed at work were saying all sorts of colorful words. Otherwise polite people will sometimes take their cue from group behavior and slowly decide to pile on because it looks like fun. Don't pile on. Be part of the solution.

My 2c

[sargenv]

Something I didn't see mention is that while people are isolating themselves, I can see this getting out of hand in the vein that everyone will eventually isolate themselves and then when it comes time to tape, pick up steel, brass, etc, there will be only the shooter, the RO, and the CRO. A lot of times I'm RO'ing and my CRO doesn't inform me, "Oh you're the on deck shooter". Great, now I have no time to prepare and get mentally "in" the game.

Personally, I can banter with people who may be doing the trash talking, but once I get to being the 3rd up next (in the hole) I start my mental preparation. I check my mags, make sure I have ammo, do a final walk through, put on my game face, and pretty much ignore everyone and everything excepting safety stuff. It doesn't always work with some of the more complex stages, but for the most part, I do pretty well. I usually squad with the same people so all the talk has pretty much gotten old. I let my shooting do the talking for me. Everyone mostly leaves me alone because they know me and we all want to do as well as we can.

When I RO on our squad, and I observe things that might be questionable, ie nearing 180, nearing sweeping themselves, etc, I make it a point after the shooter unloads and shows clear to tell them my concerns. Maybe to newer shooters it might seem I'm picking on them, but if people observe me, I'll tell these things to everyone I encounter doing the things I've described. I've noticed that everyone gets frustrated, and then they are in a hurry, and then I see that sometimes safety takes a back seat. I'm not trying to be a jerk, I just don't want anyone to get hurt.

Anyway, that's how I see it

Vince

[Nemo]

Rika,

I hope the support you've received from this excellent bunch of people will serve you well. I believe that in your recent experience lies the difference between a casual range user and a competitive shooter. This is no touchy-feely game. It is a sport where VERY competitive people participate. I don't have problem with been beaten by a lady, I just have a problem with been beaten. I compete and want to win and when I don't it is because of my poor performance and not because of the influence of the shooters around me.

What gets to me in my head is what I allow. I've had to tell a very good friend to leave me alone before a stage. I didn't do it in the most polite manner and he didn't appreciate my tone, but after the stage I apologized and explained to him what was happening. So, toughen up girl! Use whatever means available to you (iPod included) to maintain your mind in the game when needed. Take the wise advice from our fellow ladies in the forum and adopt what would work for you.

On the other hand, although you don't say if you've had such an experience, I won't tolerate rudeness towards a lady in my presence at a match, or anywhere for that matter. Female shooters, in my book, are ladies first then competitors and as taught by the stout and heavy hand of Nemo Sr. they'll be treated as I would expect from anyone to treat my mom or wife.

In summary: you have been given various techniques to deal with the mental aspect of what goes on at the match. Keep doing what you're doing to beat them until you beat them all. Now on range a$$es, although I didn't get to read Carina's post, if some guy just gets rude with you a Dawson base pad from a fully loaded mag to the nose would do the trick. I got your back!

Have fun and DVC!

p.s. I say all this without having first hand experience on shooting together with ladies. I guess they al get to the range and specifically ask to be squaded where I'm not... Is that the price of been ugly?

[sargenv]

At our range, you pretty much choose where you want to squad and with who. We'd welcome anyone who is safe and wants to shoot and help out on our squad. Sometimes people learn something, other times we learn from the new person to the squad. I have a lot of fun with the people I shoot with. We are usually one of the first squads done if we don't have to do any waiting for the squad ahead of us.

Vince

[short_round]

When I RO on our squad, and I observe things that might be questionable, ie nearing 180, nearing sweeping themselves, etc, I make it a point after the shooter unloads and shows clear to tell them my concerns.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This type of conversation should not be considered coaching. This is not advice that the shooter may choose to ignore. This type of conversation needs to be taken seriously. Safety cannot be compromised because of someone's age, gender, how nice they are, or whatever. If the person getting the "advice" does not get it, then hopefully that person will get sent home before they hurt themselves or someone else.

[BEDELLCUSTOM]

As another woman, I can say that it took me two years of watching my husband shoot before I even attempted to learn how to shoot a USPSA match. At my very first match, I thought I was actually going to vomit on the first stage because I was so nervous. But once it was over, I realized I was not going to be sick, and that it would get easier over time. I also realized that no one was going to laugh at me, and they were actually very supportive, knowing it was my first match. I am now a C class shooter and looking for B.

Now, I wish I could shoot every day. Tell her to try it. If she likes target shooting, she will love this.

Enjoy!

Sandi Bedell

[Rikarin]

Thanks everybody. I got lots of tools in my bag now. To make sure, people I shoot with are just so nice bunches. Nobdoy is rude or mean. And I think I have most faul mouth, seriously. I learend conversational English from my ex-es but everybody is kind.

[Crusher]

There is a group (3 of us) that shoot regularly at some regional monthly club matches. For a few years now we have been "Bucking Up" ( we bet $ 1.00 per stage) to see who "wins" the stage and the "bet".

As a result of doing this we find that most others that we are squaded with tend to leave us alone and let us focus on our shooting a stage even those that are clasiffied above us. (many do find it interesting and like to watch us "race" against each other)

While we are friendly and curtious to ALL within the squad we find the "buck up" method is a way to indicate to others we ARE serious about our shooting, not un-approachable just SERIOUS.