thermobollocks Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Sometimes a shooter will have some sort of death jam, gun breakage, lack of ammunition, or whatever that causes an unfortunate failure to complete the course, which is then scored as shot. In some situations, say, a 32 round course where the shooter has not engaged 8 targets, the RO knows for sure the shooter has earned 8 failure to engage procedurals as well as 8 misses, which means that the shooter's penalties exceed the number of points it is possible to score. Whenever this happens, I still score the course as shot. Sometimes I get funky looks like I'm just being a dick or I'm wasting everyone's time because we all know it's going to be 0. A DNF is not appropriate in this situation because the shooter attempted the course of fire and put some bulletholes on target. Am I wrong? We can't just mark it 0 -- we have to score everything, and the shooter earns what the shooter earns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm300 Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Yes, put down the time and score it as shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Yes, put down the time and score it as shot.Yep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 5.7.4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 yes, but zero is still zero. I guess they don't trust people to be able to do the math in their heads that if you engage less than half the targets, just the penalties for your misses will result in a score of zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 I can't think of any compelling reason to ignore the rules. The shooter deserves to be treated with that respect. Had it happen recently to a friend I was ROing who had a true squib. Verified the squib, scored as shot, commiserated later. Bummer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beastly Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 It only takes 4 paper targets (1 FTE + 2 * Miss) missed to hit 120 penalty points - the same as can be earned on 2A's on 12 other paper targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thermobollocks Posted March 29, 2016 Author Share Posted March 29, 2016 That's exactly what I'm getting at -- the rulebook does not support short-circuit scoring, so you score the entire thing. Hell, it's even possible for the shooter to FTE half the targets and go "I want an overlay!" on another. I don't mind it, but I want to make sure I've got the right idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Also keep in mind that a scoresheet without a time recorded, or with insufficient hits recorded is handled accordingly: 9.7.5 If a score sheet is found to have insufficient or excess entries, or if the time has not been recorded on the score sheet, the competitor will be required to reshoot the course of fire. Now there are exceptions, but generally speaking not recording the time and hits results in a reshoot. At least that would be my call if I was working in the RM role at a match..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHARLES D Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Something like this happened to me at Area 2 this year. On Stage 14 (120 pts) my rear sight broke off on my 3rd shot. Wasn't able to line up sights at all. Holes all over the place. Time was scored as well as missus etc etc. Was I pissed? Heck yea but not at the RO. It wasn't his fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 And with most places using electronic scoring now, you need to fill in all the lines or you can't save it. Might as well score the ones shot and mark a time then add in all the penalties. Everyone knows its a zero, but everything still needs to be shown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x45 Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Scored as shot, that's the rule. Practiscore won't let you do anything short of complete scoring anyway. Failure to engage (-10), 2 mikes (-20) and 10 points you didn't earn. 40 points lost per target, almost as bad as walking by targets.... except with a squib or broken gun you can blame the reloads or the gun.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFO Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Is it possible to get Practiscore to enter multiples of the same penalty, or do you just have to enter each one? I couldn't figure it out when this happened to a shooter while I was scoring some time ago. It seems like there should be an easier way than entering each FTSA penalty individually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 (edited) Is it possible to get Practiscore to enter multiples of the same penalty, or do you just have to enter each one? I couldn't figure it out when this happened to a shooter while I was scoring some time ago. It seems like there should be an easier way than entering each FTSA penalty individually. Matches created on Android 1.3.10 have just a Procedurals number field below the time dialog box. When you tap the number field, you get the list of each known penalty with a (+/-) key to add multiple instances. I have some matches that were probably created with an older version (or on IOS) and the score sheet just has -+ buttons with no list. Set up a match with your device and see how it works... Edited March 30, 2016 by ChuckS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFO Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 We use iPad minis, and when you select Procedural, it requires you to choose the rule number/reason. I'll have to see if it will let you increment the number of procedurals under a given rule/reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 We use iPad minis, and when you select Procedural, it requires you to choose the rule number/reason. I'll have to see if it will let you increment the number of procedurals under a given rule/reason. Which version? I just tested with 1.673 (4) and 1.674 (7) (beta release) and for the USPSA match I created I could enter multiple procedures while scoring without having to select a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 (edited) When I took the CRO class a couple years ago, they showed PS on iPads. Those had the procedural list. I tried my phone with the latest Android version and synced with the same match and didn't have the list. It seems like it may be match/version/both dependent? ETA: Yup, match dependent! I created a match and got the procedural list. I looked into some other matches that I still have on my Nook and no list. I I am going to start a thread on this subject in Operations Edited March 31, 2016 by ChuckS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euxx Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 I'll tell you even more. Those procedurals and rules are different between uspsa and ipsc match templates. So, as DQs, at least for uspsa and ipsc... Ken still has to compile DQs data for 3gn and idpa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thermobollocks Posted March 31, 2016 Author Share Posted March 31, 2016 I'll tell you even more. Those procedurals and rules are different between uspsa and ipsc match templates. So, as DQs, at least for uspsa and ipsc... Ken still has to compile DQs data for 3gn and idpa. Luckily the RM3G template I get to deal with a few times a year is pretty straightforward (and malleable) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euxx Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 (edited) I'm pretty sure rm3gn has its own rule numbers for dqs... We can support them in the app. But there is a choice. Edited March 31, 2016 by euxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x45 Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Looks like this on a Kindle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euxx Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Now, get the latest version of the app, create a new uspsa match and take a look again... The match you are showing was created without procedurals info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFO Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 We use iPad minis, and when you select Procedural, it requires you to choose the rule number/reason. I'll have to see if it will let you increment the number of procedurals under a given rule/reason. Which version? I just tested with 1.673 (4) and 1.674 (7) (beta release) and for the USPSA match I created I could enter multiple procedures while scoring without having to select a reason. Honestly not sure. I don't program them for the matches. But I do know they just went through updating everything, so we should be on the latest version now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euxx Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Btw, I don't think pin# import from the clubs web site returns match with those penalties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x45 Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 it says the latest version is 1.3.10 February 8 2016. am I missing something? The scores show up on the website as M, NS, NPM. just like the tablet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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