Making progress on the draw.

[johnbu]

Have been dry firing the draw a lot to try and get both a bit quicker as well as more consistent. Did some LIVE fire draws on a standard target at 8 yards. Pretty pleased with about 15-18 one shot draws and only one C, the rest A hits and most in the 1.20 - 1.35 range. Not earth shattering to most, but for this old guy it is! When I started working it the draw was 2.5s and mostly C & D hits.

Still trying to find the secret sauce for smooth mag changes. Maybe my depth perception sux, because I can almost guarantee smashing the mag into the edge of the mag well. I'm doing the burkett drill from pouch to mag well, but.... clang clang clang. Any tips?

Edited March 22, 2016 by johnbu

[Reshoot]

It takes an awfully lot of practice, doesn't it! I spent two years reaching a 9/10 second draw. I can still do it, at 67, with weekly drills.

The key to fast reloads is looking that mag into the well each and every time. It I let my focus slip, even a tiny bit, I'll miss it. This one I never did get real good at . . . 1.2 seconds.

[johnbu]

Yeah, I do have the attention of a distracted butterfly... hard to get focused some days.

Worked on Burkett drills today, just going slow to try and find the gross flaws. Found a tendency to look at the mag pouch, then follow it up to the gun where (surprise!) it fails to go in. Worked on staring harder at the gun and NOT looking down ... dang it's hard to break habits!

Also added a sharpie mark on the bottom of the magwell as a marker of where to put my index finger. That led to the obvious discovery that I DO NOT grab the mag from the pouch consistently. And those are just the more blatent things found. But on the bright side....I have lots to work on.

Also...I'm thinking yesterday was abnormally good as today everything was out of sorts and slow.

[GunBugBit]

From watching myself on video, I saw that I wasn't putting much oomph into the last part of the draw -- pushing the gun out to the target. I was emphasizing hand speed in the first part of the draw, and snapping the gun out of the holster, but then easing up on speed after that point.

Even at my fastest in live fire, a 1.1s draw is my best. If I don't care about getting on target, I can shave off a tenth or two, but we all know that corner can't be cut.

In dry fire, I've convinced myself I'm getting from start signal to an honest acceptable sight picture in 0.7 or 0.8, but that does not include pulling the trigger.

I have taken plenty of stabs at beating 0.6 for the index drill, but I don't think I ever have.

Edited March 23, 2016 by GunBugBit

[johnbu]

The fastest I've EVER hit under any circumstances, was a 0.98s. Just once, and never again. On a good day dry firing, I might see a 1.09...maybe once. I was actually a bit surprised to live fire 1.2x yesterday, even if it was only 8 yds.

I'm thinking just many more repetitions are needed, sadly when I drill over an hour or so, my tendonitis kicks up. Makes it hard to really groove the motion.

[GunBugBit]

I favor a few shorter sessions of speed-intensive dry fire versus one long session. This might help with the tendonitis flare-ups.

[BeerBaron]

I'm not the fastest draw or fastest shooter but I did get down to an 0.87 draw and A hit (only talking about 7 yards though). It's close enough that my main focus is on the speed but far enough away that you can still miss or get a C or D hit if you're sloppy. Having said that my usual match draw is around 1.5 to a mid distance target but can be a fair bit more if the first target is distance.

One thing that got me down from consistent 1.2 sec draws in practice was the realisation that at some point in my training I'd gotten to a kind of set speed for moving my hand/gun and presumably at the time that was as fast as I was comfortable with. simply being conscious about moving the gun up and out more aggressively combined with focusing on getting my weak hand moving faster helped massively. instant 2 tenths off. I found looking at vid that my weak hand was doing nothing during the first part of the draw and then came shooting up to meet the strong hand. I went back to basics practicing that as strong hand moves to the gun, weak hand moves to my chest.

[waktasz]

The fastest I've EVER hit under any circumstances, was a 0.98s. Just once, and never again. On a good day dry firing, I might see a 1.09...maybe once. I was actually a bit surprised to live fire 1.2x yesterday, even if it was only 8 yds.

I'm thinking just many more repetitions are needed, sadly when I drill over an hour or so, my tendonitis kicks up. Makes it hard to really groove the motion.

If you are able to go for an hour you are likely not doing it right. You need to be squeezing the hell out of the grip in dry fire or you are going to be training yourself to have poor recoil control when the live ammo comes out. My hands are usually pretty tired after going hard for even 15 or 20 minutes at a time.

I definitely recommend getting video of yourself so you can break down where you are losing time and eliminate any extra movement.

[ScottieShootz]

The best way to speed up is to break down your movements. This goes for most likely any sport, I know a few that it does as I coach them and its how I teach.

Understand the complete draw movement from "hands relaxed at sides" to start with. Don't use the 5 step draw process, just use a 3 step to simplify and increase your movement speed.

0: Find an index point for your strong and weak hand to start from, each and every time.

1: Strong hand grips gun, weak hand moves to lower abdomen (I prefer just above my belt at 1 o'clock.

2: Draw gun, weak hand makes contact for shooting grip (my weak hand makes contact right after I complete the draw out of the holster and bring my muzzle forward so I don't sweep my hand)

3: Bring sights in to alignment with your eyes.

Now, for dryfire practice sake (if any of these times are to quick, then add .2 sec increments to them so they are reasonable for the shooters abilities):

Take step 1, and set your timer for a par of 0.8 sec. Just practice from the beep to gripping your gun in the holster and bringing your weakhand to your abs. Try different index points for your hand to start at, see which gives you the quickest grip. Once you are consistently beating the .8 sec, move the par to .6. When you are on time or faster and feel comfortable with the first movement we move to step 2.

Step 2, 1 sec as your par time. Hands relaxed at sides, draw and gain firing grip with both hands, no need for sight picture yet. Move the par time to .8 when you are comfortable.

Step 3, 1.2 sec as par time. Hands relaxed at sides, draw and bring sights to alignment with your eyes. Do not pull the trigger, work the safety off if you have one. Start moving this par time down by .1 as you beat the time consistently, I usually won't move the time till I've beaten it 10 times.

After this I work on a complete draw and trigger pull for an 3x5 card A zone hit and then I'll practice for 2 A hits. The biggest thing is to see the sights before breaking the shot, having a stupid fast draw and first shot break because its a hip/point shot does no good when we need 2 hits on target.

For mag changes, we can break down the movements the same way.

Step 1: From sight picture, bring gun in to workspace

Step 1.5: Weak hand breaks grip to retrieve magazine from pouch, strong hand depresses mag release button to drop mag (I say 1.5 as I do this step while bringing gun in toward my face)

Step 2: Bring fresh mag to magazine opening

Step 3: Insert fresh mag and fully seat the mag in the gun

Step 4: Regain firing grip and press gun out for sight alignment

To practice these, Start with gun aimed at target, and practice to step 2. Stop the mag at the magazine opening on your grip. Do this 15-20 times. Then practice the entire movement of the mag change and regain your sight alignment.

Hope this helps!

Edited March 24, 2016 by ScottieShootz

[johnbu]

The fastest I've EVER hit under any circumstances, was a 0.98s. Just once, and never again. On a good day dry firing, I might see a 1.09...maybe once. I was actually a bit surprised to live fire 1.2x yesterday, even if it was only 8 yds.

I'm thinking just many more repetitions are needed, sadly when I drill over an hour or so, my tendonitis kicks up. Makes it hard to really groove the motion.

If you are able to go for an hour you are likely not doing it right. You need to be squeezing the hell out of the grip in dry fire or you are going to be training yourself to have poor recoil control when the live ammo comes out. My hands are usually pretty tired after going hard for even 15 or 20 minutes at a time.

I definitely recommend getting video of yourself so you can break down where you are losing time and eliminate any extra movement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIK4-kTqdls

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7ZZmtoPK_M

When I go for an hour, that's total time. I'll do draws, reloads, shoot (using laser) a 2" dot from 21', transitions between targets from side by side to 180 degree separation. Never too long on one thing and usually with massaging forearms every 75-100 trigger pulls. If I go more triggers my forearm goes numb and the trigger finger "gets stuck".

Yeah... I'm falling apart! Lol.

[waktasz]

You're probably squeezing too hard with the strong hand and not enough with the other one.

[johnbu]

Made some progress incorporating thoughts here and a few others. Actually hit a 0.96 today for first shot after the beep on a close 5yd target. Was so excited the next few were waaay longer. But settled down and hit several in the 1.0x range. Slowly, progress is creeping along.

[wtturn]

Made some progress incorporating thoughts here and a few others. Actually hit a 0.96 today for first shot after the beep on a close 5yd target. Was so excited the next few were waaay longer. But settled down and hit several in the 1.0x range. Slowly, progress is creeping along.

Good job.

[BoyGlock]

The best way to speed up is to break down your movements. This goes for most likely any sport, I know a few that it does as I coach them and its how I teach.

Understand the complete draw movement from "hands relaxed at sides" to start with. Don't use the 5 step draw process, just use a 3 step to simplify and increase your movement speed.

0: Find an index point for your strong and weak hand to start from, each and every time.

1: Strong hand grips gun, weak hand moves to lower abdomen (I prefer just above my belt at 1 o'clock.

2: Draw gun, weak hand makes contact for shooting grip (my weak hand makes contact right after I complete the draw out of the holster and bring my muzzle forward so I don't sweep my hand)

3: Bring sights in to alignment with your eyes.

Now, for dryfire practice sake (if any of these times are to quick, then add .2 sec increments to them so they are reasonable for the shooters abilities):

Take step 1, and set your timer for a par of 0.8 sec. Just practice from the beep to gripping your gun in the holster and bringing your weakhand to your abs. Try different index points for your hand to start at, see which gives you the quickest grip. Once you are consistently beating the .8 sec, move the par to .6. When you are on time or faster and feel comfortable with the first movement we move to step 2.

Step 2, 1 sec as your par time. Hands relaxed at sides, draw and gain firing grip with both hands, no need for sight picture yet. Move the par time to .8 when you are comfortable.

Step 3, 1.2 sec as par time. Hands relaxed at sides, draw and bring sights to alignment with your eyes. Do not pull the trigger, work the safety off if you have one. Start moving this par time down by .1 as you beat the time consistently, I usually won't move the time till I've beaten it 10 times.

After this I work on a complete draw and trigger pull for an 3x5 card A zone hit and then I'll practice for 2 A hits. The biggest thing is to see the sights before breaking the shot, having a stupid fast draw and first shot break because its a hip/point shot does no good when we need 2 hits on target.

For mag changes, we can break down the movements the same way.

Step 1: From sight picture, bring gun in to workspace

Step 1.5: Weak hand breaks grip to retrieve magazine from pouch, strong hand depresses mag release button to drop mag (I say 1.5 as I do this step while bringing gun in toward my face)

Step 2: Bring fresh mag to magazine opening

Step 3: Insert fresh mag and fully seat the mag in the gun

Step 4: Regain firing grip and press gun out for sight alignment

To practice these, Start with gun aimed at target, and practice to step 2. Stop the mag at the magazine opening on your grip. Do this 15-20 times. Then practice the entire movement of the mag change and regain your sight alignment.

Hope this helps!

I think this is good if not better

[g.willikers]

I found that reloads could be faster and better if the gun is kept high enough to allow the next target to be seen during the reload.

If the gun was lower, there was a tendency to speed up the reload, with associated errors, in order to find the next target.

Hope this helps some.

Edited April 26, 2016 by g.willikers

[bradsteimel]

One thing no one's touched on is, holster and 1st mag pouch position. A primary concern for draw speed is, having the holster/gun in the exact position you need to get a fast solid grip. For fast mag changes, your first mag pouch has to be in the exact position your arm/hand go down to from the gun.

After grabbing the mag, it's a matter of inserting it into the gun. I personally don't think extreme close-up vision is needed to see the magwell - if you have the gun in the same spot in front of your face for every reload, you should be able to do a reload with your eyes closed.

Key to success = repetition.

[diddomatic]

A good clean draw doesn't have to be the fastest. The draw is a very small part of the stage comparing your time to everything else you will do. If you can get a solid grip around one sec then that's going to help. I scoop draw an I've only been able to fully utilize it in a match twice. Most stages you have to move to a position to start shooting. Work on getting a solid draw from an position you will be in or moving too.

[superluckycat]

Looks like we're in the same boat. I was shooting 1.35ish 7 yd draws yesterday, all A's and my reloads continue to suck.

But I am dry firing an hour a day 6 days a week and have improved dramatically in a little over a month.