echotango Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 Mine does the same. Switching to a Redding seating die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 Get the Hornady seating die. It has a sleeve to align the bullet before seating it. Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk It won't straighten a bullet that is laying crossways on a caseFair point. But it will straighten a bullet that's tipped slightly. Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk They pretty much all will? My Dillon did and my Redding does. BUT they are all good dies. It's generally a very small adjustment that fixes things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 IceStud - good idea. Sarge - thanks. I was only finding the competition die (w/ mic). I thought there would be a straight section within the die before the taper starts, but that's not the case. So basically the die will let a .015" flare just barely fit before starting to crimp. And due to the machining marks all over the chamfer and inside the die, a .015" flare will end up shaving brass. A .010" flare is as big as I could make it and get it to smoothly enter the die, but this requires using some force when placing the bullet to get it to hold w/o tipping over. With .016" flare, the weight of my hand and bullet gives enough resistance to keep the bullet in place with the press running at a normal pace. Where are you seating the bullet? You should be putting it on under the seating die, not the station before. I just can't figure out why a bullet won't go straight up without tipping. This press is kicking your ass! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightSh00ter Posted March 28, 2016 Author Share Posted March 28, 2016 IceStud - good idea. Sarge - thanks. I was only finding the competition die (w/ mic). I thought there would be a straight section within the die before the taper starts, but that's not the case. So basically the die will let a .015" flare just barely fit before starting to crimp. And due to the machining marks all over the chamfer and inside the die, a .015" flare will end up shaving brass. A .010" flare is as big as I could make it and get it to smoothly enter the die, but this requires using some force when placing the bullet to get it to hold w/o tipping over. With .016" flare, the weight of my hand and bullet gives enough resistance to keep the bullet in place with the press running at a normal pace. Where are you seating the bullet? You should be putting it on under the seating die, not the station before. I just can't figure out why a bullet won't go straight up without tipping. This press is kicking your ass! Haha - I don't think I'd say it's kicking my ass, but I'll admit I still have a lot to learn. With less flare there is less friction holding these bullets upright. A few of them tipped during my last loading session (loading just under the seating die). But I'm reading about how different seating dies work and looking at the SAAMI spec (which Redding references), and getting a better understanding of flare diameter and die positioning relative to case depth. Then there's the piece about bullet shape and flare (expander) profile (e.g. why people like the MBF funnel, or "M die"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 There's something weird going on. During die setup I've turned cases into trumpets with the dillon powder funnel and they still went into seating and crimp dies ok. In fact a couple that were bad I took out and put them straight back through the sizing die and that worked too. They have to be really knackered to not fit into the lee seater. Check it's the correct die. And smooth out any marks as suggested. Should solve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1gcountry Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 I hold onto the bullet until it reaches the mouth of the bullet seater. It probably isn't the fastest way of doing it, but it works well for manually fed bullets Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightSh00ter Posted March 29, 2016 Author Share Posted March 29, 2016 There's something weird going on. During die setup I've turned cases into trumpets with the dillon powder funnel and they still went into seating and crimp dies ok. In fact a couple that were bad I took out and put them straight back through the sizing die and that worked too. They have to be really knackered to not fit into the lee seater. Check it's the correct die. And smooth out any marks as suggested. Should solve it. Smoothing out the seater die made a huge difference in how much flare the die will fit. My only issue now is finding the right amount of flare to hang on the bullets. Using .016" of flare (a lot) will hold on to bullets regardless of head stamp. Less than that doesn't grip bullets at all, until I get down to about .005" which also holds bullets nicely. Unfortunately I get a lot of variation with different head stamps and adjusting that small amount of flare is a PITA for different head stamps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Sort by headstamp and load that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1gcountry Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 I can't remember if you are using a bullet feeder. .. Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 I can't remember if you are using a bullet feeder. .. Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk He isnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsa Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2670460203/double-alpha-mr-bulletfeeder-dillon-powder-funnel Try one of these, it will work/form the brass less and create more of a pocket for the bullet to sit in thus preventing the bullets from tipping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1gcountry Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Do you hold onto the bullet while you raise the ram into the toolhead? I usually guide the bullet into the seating die with my left hand. I'm not sure if that is ideal if you are going for speed, but I don't really worry about how much time it takes. Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyWifeShootsBetter Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 What an interesting thread. I'm not trying to be a smart ass. We all drank the Blue Kool-Aid, have another gulp and get the Dillon dies. I load on a 550. To keep up with feeding the guns I might load weekly, twice a month or once a month. I don't need problems when I load. Mostly load a 9mm 124gr plated FP. If I change to a different bullet, the seating die is adjusted for bullet shape and length and the powder charge changes, that is all I change. Sizing a case doesn't change, belling doesn't change, crimp doesn't change. It's range brass, mostly from our guns (our brass is marked), so is case length different from different head stamps, yes. Is sizing length different, yes. Is belling size different, yes. Is seating length different, yes. is crimp different, yes. Different by how much, it's in the .001 of inch numbers, not .010. Re-shaping dies....WHY ! IMHO.....Lee, RCBS, Reeding, etc.... all make a good product for their equipment. Dillon makes a better product for their equipment. The time spent on re-shaping dies, and trying this and that is not worth the $30 or $40 bucks to be saved on dies. I would rather be adjusting OAL and powder charge for a more accurate rd. for a gun. I understand the XL650 machines have a more complex sequence that needs to be tweaked due to the automatic advance of the shell plate but why complicate it more. The mechanical function of the press is #1, #2 are the dies. The dies are what shapes that brass, it's that shape that perfectly releases that bullet to enter the barrel and contact the lands so the bullet doesn't "shake" and seals in the grooves so the powder charged that is burning creating all that "gas" is efficiently trapped and used to propel that stable, spinning bullet to your target. Wow got a chubby typing that last part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightSh00ter Posted April 2, 2016 Author Share Posted April 2, 2016 (edited) I agree that it's annoying to have to 're-shape' a die. I didn't really want to, but with the right sanding bit on the Dremel it was easy and quick to remove the machining marks, and it came out pretty nice. Last night I experimented using the Lee powder-through expander die in station 3, with the Dillon powder die backed out enough to not flare anything. I was able to get the flare perfect. It was easy and quick to setup, and the Lee die allowed a little tolerance - I could dial in a little more or a little less and still have the right flare in every brand of case to hold a bullet secure enough for seating. I also experimented with the Dillon funnel - trying different amounts of flare with different case brands and 2 different RN bullets. I couldn't find a common flare that worked (provided some friction) for every combination. So, I personally have come to the same conclusion as the others who've changed out the Dillon funnel (or re-shaped it ), or run a separate expander die. I think the best option (for me, hand-feeding bullets) is a new or modified funnel, so I'm not expanding full cases and since the right funnel won't require adjusting for different brass. If I wanted to tweak the flare for different head stamps and/or knew I wouldn't make a mess expanding charged cases, a stand-alone expander die with fine adjustment would be OK. Edited April 2, 2016 by StraightSh00ter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1gcountry Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 I definitely do not consider smoothing milling marks to be "reshaping" a die. If Dillon dies work well for you, then go for it. My reloading mentor used Lee dies, so that is what I learned on. I have never had a problem with the 45 and 40 dies I bought several years ago, but the 9mm dies I picked up a few years ago weren't as smooth on the inside. Once I figured out out, it only took me 10min to fix. I spend more time adjusting the dies anyway. Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 You can move the powder drop to station 3. So you can put your lee expander in s2 so it's not expanding a charged case (not that it should really matter) then run your dillon powder drop in s3. You could either back off the flare in the dillon or swap out the ptx for a regular non flaring powder funnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1gcountry Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 Why move the powder drop to s3? Does the fail safe bar work with the powder drop that far over? Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightSh00ter Posted April 4, 2016 Author Share Posted April 4, 2016 Why move the powder drop to s3? Does the fail safe bar work with the powder drop that far over? Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk That came from my thought that expanding a charged case might make a mess, assuming powder measure in station 2 was setup not to flare. I ran a few rounds with the Lee expander in station 3 and didn't see much of a mess, but I also wasn't anywhere close to full speed. The flare was perfect, however. I looked at having the powder measure in station 3 and it looks doable, maybe needing a slight adjustment of the fail-safe rod or attachment, but maybe not. I'm really happy with the flare/expansion I get from the Lee die - just a small amount of flare and bullets seem to sit just right on every head stamp I load with. I'll keep the Lee in station 3 for now, until I've had a chance to try the MBF funnel. I'm also considering a modification to a Lee expander to make it work in the Dillon die, but that won't happen until I've finished a few other projects. It should be relatively quick with a drill press and a file... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1gcountry Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Makes me wonder if it wouldn't just be simpler to try to run the Lee powder measure in place of the Dillon one. I have no clue if it would work. I have never seen one. Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Yes you can run the dillon measure in s3. No mod needed to the failsafe. You can remove the failsafe of you like and run the 2 springs on the measure. Yes you can swap to the lee measure too. To get it running on the dillon you need: Lee powder die with ptx (if you have a lee 3 or 4 die set you have this already) Lee auto disk riser (I actually run 2 so it clears my mbf die) about $9 Lee auto drum $35 it's an excellent measure. In some ways it's better than the dillon. But running the way you are now will work too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightSh00ter Posted May 13, 2016 Author Share Posted May 13, 2016 (edited) I've loaded about 1,500 rounds since I setup the machine to drop powder only in Station 2, and expand/flare in Station 3 with the Lee die. This setup is working extremely well - no brass at all on the shell plate and hardly any powder. I thought expanding a charged case would lead to powder spillage but I was wrong. The shape of the Lee expander seems so much more compatible with my bullets and brass. I haven't had any tipped bullets and I'm running all mixed brass. I ran about 900rds/hr today and was very pleased running the machine. There may be something more creative but I really don't need extra projects at the moment. Edited May 13, 2016 by StraightSh00ter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1gcountry Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 I think you got your station numbers wrong. You are using an xl650, right? Then you mean station 2 and 3 I think Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 (edited) I run a set of lee dies. The seating die is a little rough on the inside. and I would call the stuff on the shellplate dust. I did the same as bowenbuilt advised, I polished the entrance and into the mouth of the die. I see very little dust now. miranda not sure what happened with my first post... Edited May 13, 2016 by Miranda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
echotango Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 I ended up doing the same. my shell plate would be covered in brass dust after not many rounds. I turned it down a little on a lathe and after 4000+ rounds, not a spec of brass dust. Not sure why them make it so rough. I know....cost... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightSh00ter Posted May 13, 2016 Author Share Posted May 13, 2016 I think you got your station numbers wrong. You are using an xl650, right? Then you mean station 2 and 3 I think Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk Thanks, you are correct. I fixed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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