StraightSh00ter Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 There are other 'brass shaving' threads around but they all seem a little different, so please forgive a similar post.... I've been getting brass shavings all over my Dillon 650 shell plate. After a thorough cleaning and inspection I've found that they're coming from the Lee 9mm seating die. I reduced my flare to about .014" and it still is on the verge of shaving brass, and this amount of flare seems to be on the low side to me. With about .017 I can place bullets in the case and they comfortable pass the shoulder and stay in place, and they have no marks on the plating. With .014" I'm getting into the territory of scuffing the copper plating on the bullets, though not severely. If I flare a case, bypass the seat die and run it through the crimp die (without a bullet) it seems to remove the flare just fine w/o scraping brass. I read that the seating die can be used to crimp by adjusting the depth of the die. However I don't have it at the crimp position and the flared cases don't really fit inside the mouth of the die even trying by hand, so I don't believe it's trying to crimp anything. Any thoughts on what's going on? Does it sound unusual? Do all seating dies try to remove the flare? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowenbuilt Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 I am sure you will get a hundred different answers to this problem but the one thing that worked for me and what I always do to Lee seating dies is open and polish the sharp edges away from the entrance of the die mouth. I start with a small sanding drum on a Dremel and slightly open up the mouth of the seating die at the same time removing the sharp edges. Then I come back with a felt bob and some Flitz and polish the entrance to mirror finish. Make sure the seating die is screwed up high in the die plate so no crimping action is happening and then you can flare all you want and the edge of the die will not clip off the brass shavings. I do this right out of the box to prevent what you are going through and it works 100% of the time for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightSh00ter Posted March 20, 2016 Author Share Posted March 20, 2016 I am sure you will get a hundred different answers to this problem but the one thing that worked for me and what I always do to Lee seating dies is open and polish the sharp edges away from the entrance of the die mouth. I start with a small sanding drum on a Dremel and slightly open up the mouth of the seating die at the same time removing the sharp edges. Then I come back with a felt bob and some Flitz and polish the entrance to mirror finish. Make sure the seating die is screwed up high in the die plate so no crimping action is happening and then you can flare all you want and the edge of the die will not clip off the brass shavings. I do this right out of the box to prevent what you are going through and it works 100% of the time for me. Thanks for the reply - I'm much happier knowing it's not just me How do you determine the seating die height? The Lee manual says 3 turns back from touching the shell plate for no crimp, so that's what I've been using. Since it's shaving brass it's hard to tell if its also crimping. Truthfully I'd rather find a die that didn't need modification, but I also don't want to drop $80 on a Redding right now since I've got a vacation coming up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 Try raising it another thread and tighten the lock nut with a case in the die - to be sure it is centered in the die. Also have the shell plate full of cases when you do so. If that doesn't solve the problem, then do as suggested in Post #2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 You don't need to throw away money on a micrometer seating die for USPSA loads. Try backing the die out farther and readjusting accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheeljack Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 Do you flare the case mouth just enough to start the bullet? Then add powder thru this die. With the seating die, screw it in until it touches the case mouth. If you don't want to crimp the shell at this stage, turn the die back only 1/2 turn. If you want a crimp, turn the die in 1/4 turn. Then seat the bullet. If you didn't put a crimp on the shell, you can use the Factory Crimp Die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightSh00ter Posted March 20, 2016 Author Share Posted March 20, 2016 Thanks guys - it sounds like the die is adjusted too far down. Without a bullet, the case enters the die and get shaved and apparently crimped. I'll back it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDA Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 I found that throwing the Lee seating dies as far as you can, and then replacing it with a Dillon seating die immediately solves the problem... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightSh00ter Posted March 21, 2016 Author Share Posted March 21, 2016 It was a combination of things: Somewhere along the way I got a little overboard with the flare, but I also had to back out the die really far to stop it from crimping. One I fixed the amount of flare I traded brass shavings for brass dust. I had to back the die out and screw the adjustment pretty far in to get it to a good place. Right now I'm in good shape but it would be nice to eventually have a die that didn't try to crimp. Thanks for the help - it was annoying making such a quick mess out of my freshly cleaned press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1gcountry Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 I found this helped bit did not completely fix the same issue I had. Once I took a dremel with a light sanding disc with a few notches cut out of it, the issue went away completely. The inside of the die was simply rough like sandpaper. 10 minutes and it was smooth enough. No need for flitz it doesn't need to be polished, just not rough. Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightSh00ter Posted March 25, 2016 Author Share Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) I found this helped bit did not completely fix the same issue I had. Once I took a dremel with a light sanding disc with a few notches cut out of it, the issue went away completely. The inside of the die was simply rough like sandpaper. 10 minutes and it was smooth enough. No need for flitz it doesn't need to be polished, just not rough. Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk Same for me - it helped, but didn't cure the problem. And now bullets are tipping over and crushing against the die. At least I'm learning how much crimp to use. I don't need another project at the moment so it will be a little while before I try adjusting it. Edited March 25, 2016 by StraightSh00ter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 I found this helped bit did not completely fix the same issue I had. Once I took a dremel with a light sanding disc with a few notches cut out of it, the issue went away completely. The inside of the die was simply rough like sandpaper. 10 minutes and it was smooth enough. No need for flitz it doesn't need to be polished, just not rough. Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk Same for me - it helped, but didn't cure the problem. And now bullets are tipping over and crushing against the die. At least I'm learning how much crimp to use. I don't need another project at the moment so it will be a little while before I try adjusting it.I thought you had this figured out.?. When do bullets tip? You have to get the hang of the process and sit the bullet on there soundly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightSh00ter Posted March 25, 2016 Author Share Posted March 25, 2016 I thought I did too. It seemed good at first, but I loaded a few hundred rounds last night and had maybe 7 bullets tip, 3 or 4 of them ended up deforming the case when they hit the die. There's still brass powder on the shell plate, but less than I had before and the cases look better and fit the chamber gauge easier. I definitely had too much flare when you were here - before cleaning my press I had less. Either way, I never had to pay this much attention to seating bullets to make sure they'd stay upright. I'm sure I just need a touch more flare, but then I'll get more brass on my shell plate. Sarge do you have a link to the non-micrometer Redding die you have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyjones Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 Get the Hornady seating die. It has a sleeve to align the bullet before seating it. Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 Get the Hornady seating die. It has a sleeve to align the bullet before seating it. Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk It won't straighten a bullet that is laying crossways on a case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyjones Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 Get the Hornady seating die. It has a sleeve to align the bullet before seating it. Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk It won't straighten a bullet that is laying crossways on a caseFair point. But it will straighten a bullet that's tipped slightly. Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icestud Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) It could be that the loaded round and the die are not concentric, I would try with the press loaded loosen the die locking ring, bring the tool head down on a loaded round then tighten the lock ring. It should center the die around your round. It could be that the seating die was not centered and the round was scraping on the way out. Also mark the round with a black marker and see where it's scraping. Doing this should help with concentricity Edited March 25, 2016 by icestud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 I thought I did too. It seemed good at first, but I loaded a few hundred rounds last night and had maybe 7 bullets tip, 3 or 4 of them ended up deforming the case when they hit the die. There's still brass powder on the shell plate, but less than I had before and the cases look better and fit the chamber gauge easier. I definitely had too much flare when you were here - before cleaning my press I had less. Either way, I never had to pay this much attention to seating bullets to make sure they'd stay upright. I'm sure I just need a touch more flare, but then I'll get more brass on my shell plate. Sarge do you have a link to the non-micrometer Redding die you have? Not a link but it's the best I can manage on my phone. midwayusa Redding Pro Series Seater Die 9mm Luger Product #: 720594 Redding #: 94172 UPC #: 611760941726 4.7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightSh00ter Posted March 26, 2016 Author Share Posted March 26, 2016 IceStud - good idea. Sarge - thanks. I was only finding the competition die (w/ mic). I thought there would be a straight section within the die before the taper starts, but that's not the case. So basically the die will let a .015" flare just barely fit before starting to crimp. And due to the machining marks all over the chamfer and inside the die, a .015" flare will end up shaving brass. A .010" flare is as big as I could make it and get it to smoothly enter the die, but this requires using some force when placing the bullet to get it to hold w/o tipping over. With .016" flare, the weight of my hand and bullet gives enough resistance to keep the bullet in place with the press running at a normal pace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1gcountry Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 If you have a dremel, you can remove those machining marks very easily with a sanding disc. It really did make all the difference with my Lee 9mm dies. I'm sure you can get good results with higher quality dies as well, but you seem to be spending a lot of time posting about the problem... Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightSh00ter Posted March 27, 2016 Author Share Posted March 27, 2016 If you have a dremel, you can remove those machining marks very easily with a sanding disc. It really did make all the difference with my Lee 9mm dies. I'm sure you can get good results with higher quality dies as well, but you seem to be spending a lot of time posting about the problem... Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk I agree. Originally I didn't know exactly how the die worked and didn't want to deal with it, but I can't resist figuring out what's wrong with things and potentially fixing them. I'm trying to find the drum for my small dremel sand pads - the box stores didn't have any. For $30 I might just quit and grab an RCBS, Hornady, or Redding Pro die but we'll see. I don't need to load anything for another couple of weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1gcountry Posted March 27, 2016 Share Posted March 27, 2016 Fwiw, I used a Sanding disc like this https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fecx.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FI%2F41-NuNy-0ZL._SY300_.jpg&f=1 It worked great. I did cut it into a triangle to fit inside better. It works great as is for the mouth of the die. Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightSh00ter Posted March 27, 2016 Author Share Posted March 27, 2016 That's exactly the kind of thing I was looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightSh00ter Posted March 27, 2016 Author Share Posted March 27, 2016 Fwiw, I used a Sanding disc like this https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fecx.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FI%2F41-NuNy-0ZL._SY300_.jpg&f=1 It worked great. I did cut it into a triangle to fit inside better. It works great as is for the mouth of the die. Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk I couldn't find my little drum but I did find my 3/4" sanding disks. Thanks for the idea and inspiration - I will give it a shot. Still, I'm interested in finding out if other dies will accommodate a little more flare, and/or if there is a different expander to use in the Dillon powder measure that might work better with the Lee die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1gcountry Posted March 27, 2016 Share Posted March 27, 2016 I use as little flare as possible, but my dies can handle a decent amount of flare Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now