Ejection Problem

[CenTX]

My open gun has been very reliable for the year that I have had it, until the week before the Doubletap Ranch Championships. For a year it has run on anything I have put in it. I've tried several brands of factory loaded 38 Super, steel and major handloads without any problems, even 38 Super Comp

First I had a couple of failure to ejects at a local match, the next match, at Doubletap, I had the problem three stages in a row. The thought popped in my head "maybe I'm holding soft", no more ejection problems the next 7 stages. Shot two matches since then and it has happened a couple of more times.

It has happened on four differrent magazines and I've replaced the springs and that has not helped. Today I am replacing the ejector & extractor.

The problem started at the time I started adding in some new Winchester 38 Super brass mixed in with my old Winchester 38 Super brass. The virgin brass seems to stick some in my Dillon 550. I have heard this is not unusual, but I am wondering could it be the virgin brass is sticking in the chamber and causing a failure to eject.

The empty brass does not turn far enough to be a true "smokestack", usually have to drop the mag and rack the slide to clear. Any ideas? I'm grasping at straws. Trying to get this resolved before Space City.

Thanks

[Harmon]

you might need a new extractor..

simple fix would be change the guns name from something different than "old reliable"

perhaps some "one shot" on the cases could keep them from sticking in the dies...also should help them from sticking in the chamber..

just some thoughts.

[benny hill]

Have you added a shock buff & not trimmed it?

[CenTX]

you might need a new extractor..

simple fix would be change the guns name from something different than "old reliable"

perhaps some "one shot" on the cases could keep them from sticking in the dies...also should help them from sticking in the chamber..

just some thoughts.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Put a new ejector & extractor in today, the old ones seemed fine, but I'm trying everything. Maybe I'll start calling it POS.

I think I'll just use fired brass this weekend and see what happens. If it runs fine I'll go out next week with virgin brass and see if there are any problems. I am hoping someone has some input on the new brass thing.

Thanks for the reply.

[Flexmoney]

If you think your new brass is bad...measure it.

Want to see if it fits in your chamber? Pull the barrel out and chamber check your ammo.

On Super vs Super COMP. Pick one. Then set the extractor up for THAT rim type. Some get away with running both in their guns. But, you likely run the chance of running both...poorly. (If you gun is setup ideally for one, it won't be ideal for the other. If it is in the middle, then it is not ideal for either.)

[Newguy]

The usual suspects:

ejector (occassionally)

extractor tension

mag springs

recoil spring (not mentioned)

shok-buff not trimmed

cases won't drop in case gauge and in barrel

A sometimes overlooked problem. Make sure your rounds are clean. I've had trouble with smokestacking when I used One-Shot together with dirty dies. Created a gunk on the shell which caused occassional smokestacks. Putting finished rounds into the tumbler for 15 or so minutes cleared up the problem.

[eric nielsen]

You should tumble the heck out of your new brass - I've got some in the past that seemed like it was coated with glue. I like Rem 38super +P nickel the best, but you have to deburr the case mouth which is a mess.

For mixing - you got lucky. There's very noticeable differences among 38Super, 38Super Comp, 9mm Super Comp, 9x23, and especially 38 TJ by Hornady.

The TJ would not even stay in my 9mm/Super shell plate. Also these different brands & designs all end up with different OAL for the same bullet seating setup on the Dillon press.

I would not expect to get better than 90-something% reliability if you were to mix these all up. Do what Flex says. If you show up at a match with the best ammo, your chances of winning/performing well go up astronomically... MHO

[shred]

"holding soft" or as the GT-ers like to say "limp-wristing" malfunctions shows that something is marginal in the operation and timing, but you probably knew that.

But, if the problem is repeatable, say in a weak-handed loose-grip, then I'd start to suspect some of the moving parts aren't moving quite properly. Have you tried lightening up the recoil spring?

[CenTX]

If you think your new brass is bad...measure it.

Want to see if it fits in yuor chamber?  Pull the barrel out and chamber check your ammo.

On Super vs Super COMP.  Pick one.  Then set the extractor up for THAT rim type.  Some get away with running both in their guns.  But, you likely run the chance of running both...poorly.  (If you gun is setup ideally for one, it won't be ideal for the other.  If it is in the middle, then it is not ideal for either.)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I drop check every reload, my drop check gauge is tighter than my chamber. Since the new brass seems to stick in my EGW sizing die, I was wondering, if when they are fired, maybe they expand and the new brass sticks just a bit.

I shoot Win 38s in matches, use evrything else for practice

[CenTX]

The usual suspects:

ejector (occassionally)

extractor tension

mag springs

recoil spring (not mentioned)

shok-buff not trimmed

cases won't drop in case gauge and in barrel

A sometimes overlooked problem. Make sure your rounds are clean. I've had trouble with smokestacking when I used One-Shot together with dirty dies. Created a gunk on the shell which caused occassional smokestacks. Putting finished rounds into the tumbler for 15 or so minutes cleared up the problem.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The old extractor & ejector seemed fine, but I rhave eplaced them anyway.

Replaced mag springs after the first problem, it has occured on four different mags. Two of the mags were tuned by Beven and have new Grams springs & followers.

Recoil spring tested 9# on my test guage, been using 9# since I got the gun, but I've bought a 7 & 8 that I'll try. Shred also suggest the recoil spring.

I'm using a EGW buff, it fits up pretty good, I don't think it needs trimming. Benny also suggested the buff might need trimming. Maybe I'll just pull the buff out and see what happens.

I drop check all my reloads and my guage is tighter than my chamber.

thanks for the input

[CenTX]

You should tumble the heck out of your new brass - I've got some in the past that seemed like it was coated with glue. I like Rem 38super +P nickel the best, but you have to deburr the case mouth which is a mess.

For mixing - you got lucky. There's very noticeable differences among 38Super, 38Super Comp, 9mm Super Comp, 9x23, and especially 38 TJ by Hornady.

The TJ would not even stay in my 9mm/Super shell plate. Also these different brands & designs all end up with different OAL for the same bullet seating setup on the Dillon press.

I would not expect to get better than 90-something% reliability if you were to mix these all up. Do what Flex says. If you show up at a match with the best ammo, your chances of winning/performing well go up astronomically... MHO

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'll have not been tumbling the new brass before the first loading, but I will from now on.

I shot Win 38s in matches, but mix 38s brands for pactice. Tried the 38 SuperComp just to see if it would run, thinking about moving to SuperComp.

thanks for the tips

[Rush]

Flex makes a good point. You need to choose a shell type. I've found that supercomp brass, used with a gun tuned for 38Super brass, the supercomp shells will cause jams. Its not so evident in slower shots, but when you're doing .2 splits or less, the extractor will let go of the shell early causing the jams.

I tried using supercomp/rimless brass before due to the +1 it gave. But i switched back to super brass.. I didn't want to change out the aftec

Do the jams occur only with supercomp? or for normal super as well?

Rgds,

[The Hangin' Chad]

If you are going to play with the ejector and extractor, you need to go to Brazos site and read his article on ejection perfection. It is very important that the extractor isn't twisting, I've seen a twisting extractor cause exactly what you are describing. I go a step further than his article and use the weigand guages with a trigger spring scale and set the tension at 18 oz.. I've seen some open guns with a very good slide to frame fit run reliable as low as 12 oz. but started giving stove pipes sticking straight out the side at 10 oz., you're better off staying around 16 to 18 but the hook must radiused and polished to maintain reliable feeding.

The new brass in my press wants to hang on the powder belling die as the shell plate is being lowered, not the sizing die. As flex stated, unless your virgin brass has something wrong with it dimensionally I don't see how it could be causing any problems.

Hope this helps.

THC

[CenTX]

I go a step further than his article and use the weigand guages with a trigger spring scale and set the tension at 18 oz..

As flex stated, unless your virgin brass has something wrong with it dimensionally I don't see how it could be causing any problems.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I tried Google and cannot find the weigand guage you refer to, can anyone tell me where to find information on it?

Since I could not find anything else and using a new brass was the only thing different I was looking at all possibilities.

[CenTX]

When to the range today fired 250 rounds and the gun ran flawlessly, shooting a match tomorrow and will see what happens. Strange, but I really noticed the recoil when trying to hold light ,limp wrist or watch the brass ejecting.

I don't know for sure that it is fixed, but I am hopeful. I have done the following:

new ejector & extractor

checked the recoil spring on my guage & it is at 9#, if it malfunctions again I'll try lighter

new unaltered EGW shok-buff

new mag springs

tumbled all the vigin brass that I had loaded for 8 hours

Thanks everybody for the help.

[The Hangin' Chad]

Glad to here she's running good so far.

The weigand guages can be ordered from Brownells @ $15.00, all you need is a small key ring for the hole in the guage and stick the trigger spring scale in the key ring.

Caspian 28 does make a good point about new brass with weird coating and tumbling to get rid of it, although I've never experienced it.

I use CP and EGW buffs, I think they are identical. I did finally get some jams in my limited gun due to buffs a long time ago, they were fail to feed. A friend had to point it out to me, at the top on the sides of the buff you could see the rub marks on the buff from the slide rubbing it, what happens is if you shoot the gun long enough it will get hot enough to make the buff swell and make contact with the slide. Ever since then the buff doesn't go in any of my guns until I trim a V notch on both sides, I've never had a jam due to a buff since. I can post a pick if you would like.

Keep us posted CenTX

THC

[Anthony Lombardo]

Its not so evident in slower shots, but when you're doing .2 splits or less, the extractor will let go of the shell early causing the jams

huh? Keep in mind, you cannot shoot faster than the gun. What you are describing is impossible.

[Rush]

Its not so evident in slower shots, but when you're doing .2 splits or less, the extractor will let go of the shell early causing the jams

huh? Keep in mind, you cannot shoot faster than the gun. What you are describing is impossible.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

don't think so. my fastest splits are in the .11 and .10 of a second on my open...

... others are even faster... Steve Anderson comes to mind...

my normal splits.. A-A are .16 to .18 of a second...

[Flexmoney]

Hmmmm...not sure how split times would be a factor really (maybe a change in grip pressure?).

The gun cycles much faster (0.05-0.06 range) than anybody can do a split. Even fast splits are take twice as long as that (0.10).

But, yeah...pick a type/size of brass, tune the extrator to THAT brass, then go from there.