Jump to content
Brian Enos's Forums... Maku mozo!
davidb72

Should amateurs have to shoot against "pros"?

Recommended Posts

Simple question - should true "amateur" shooters have to compete against "pros"?

When I was involved in motor racing there was a pretty clear definition of who was an amateur and who was a pro.

There doesn't seem to be that distinction in USPSA.

I would have thought the classification system would take care of this, but it seems like pros come in D class to GM these days.

Should any "pro" shooter be required to register as "industry" so they don't take prizes away from the "amateurs"?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmmm, interesting question.

I think the class system takes care of a lot. If I'm D class and another guy is D class but happens to be sponsored (what I would say makes a person pro) then we are both still D. He'll likely get better faster and move up, but then he isn't my competition any more.

Probably at the M GM level it's more important to the guys competing for money, prizes, fame etc. but how do you make that separation? I bet there are some amateurs that shoot just as much as some pros, so is it only if you get paid?

It'll be interesting to see where this thread goes

Red

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Simple question - should true "amateur" shooters have to compete against "pros"?

When I was involved in motor racing there was a pretty clear definition of who was an amateur and who was a pro.

I spent a lot of time in motorcycle racing and never saw a clear definition and doubt there is one in any other form of racing either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't care. I like being on a squad with a "pro" or Ms or GMs. It is very informative.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've shot a number of competitions (and hope to shoot a whole lot more), finished ahead of some people, finished behind a lot of people. I've yet to have someone "take" a prize away from me. Look, we're all going to have to deal with life's inequities. Some folks live a few minutes from the range while others have to drive an hour or more. Some folks have more time they can practice or a larger budget to afford better equipment/more rounds downrange. Just concentrate on doing the best you can do within the constraints your situation dictates and (here's the really important part) enjoy the sport. Anytime I begin a new challenge I recall what Coach Lengyel told us back in 1971. "There are no guarantees in life, but if you show up, prepared and determined to do your best, good things can happen."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Golf is probably the closest sport to action pistols, though much more popular.

I do believe if the sport becomes much more popular with a huge player base, there will be declaration and distinction between Am vs. Pro.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One of the things I like about shooting is there is the "pros versus joes" aspect. No one will let me on the same track as Rossi in a race but yet I potentially can be on the same squad as the "pros". Often a talented "joe" in any other sport will think to himself, 'i could beat him!', well in shooting you get your chance from day one. Think you're an amazing prodigy? Come out and prove it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you are shooting to win prizes instead of to improve your skills, you are doing it wrong.

the reason pro's don't compete against amateurs in many forms of motor racing is safety. Where safety is not an issue (national enduro or national hare and hound), I get to compete against pros, and I like that.

I can't imagine why anyone would want to artificially restrict their competition. Might as well just give everyone a self-esteem medal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Golf is probably the closest sport to action pistols, though much more popular.

I do believe if the sport becomes much more popular with a huge player base, there will be declaration and distinction between Am vs. Pro.

What? Golf more popular than the shooting sports? You take that back right now, young fella!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you are shooting to win prizes instead of to improve your skills, you are doing it wrong.

the reason pro's don't compete against amateurs in many forms of motor racing is safety. Where safety is not an issue (national enduro or national hare and hound), I get to compete against pros, and I like that.

I can't imagine why anyone would want to artificially restrict their competition. Might as well just give everyone a self-esteem medal.

YES!!! Well put Laddie!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wasn't the GM classification created for the pros? :rolleyes:

I'm not sure that was the complete reason, but as I recall it was at least part of the reason.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pro's already compete against each other. HOA or 1st GM is a huge difference.

Neither of those 'wins' takes away from the D class shooter.

In USPSA, at least you have a chance to 'win' your class. In IPSC, you either win, or are the 1st loser. No self-esteem medals in that sport.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is this serious? There are less than a dozen pros in shooting.

Until you quit your day job, a person isn't pro at anything. They're just better than other people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is this serious? There are less than a dozen pros in shooting.

Until you quit your day job, a person isn't pro at anything. They're just better than other people.

Aren't there a lot of shooters, that get ammo, and match fees paid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is this serious? There are less than a dozen pros in shooting.

Until you quit your day job, a person isn't pro at anything. They're just better than other people.

Aren't there a lot of shooters, that get ammo, and match fees paid.

a) who cares?

B) I doubt it is what I would consider a 'lot'.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wasn't the GM classification created for the pros? :rolleyes:

I'm not sure that was the complete reason, but as I recall it was at least part of the reason.

Yes that is what a GM was supposed to be but people love being ranked higher than the next guy, so we have a lot more non-Pro GM's.

What I hope never happens is Super GM (top1%)

Back to the original post You compete in your division and class. Are you gonna beat Max Eric etc by just getting letters Uh no. So get that GM card if you want.

GM's used to compete only for HOA til very recently. I notice some matches giving HOA 1st GM 2nd GM…..

I guess the 1% Super GM is already slipping in there

Edited by BSeevers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In other activities I've been invloved can in where professionals and amateurs competed since-by-side the distinction was usually the same ... The definition of a professional was. Someone who's primary source of income was derived from the activity. Fancy uniforms and free stuff from a company was irreverent ... You signed an affidavit declaring whether your primary income was coming from this activity or not. And 'primary was defined as 'at least 50%' ....

And while we all can be in the same competition as the "pros" or more accuractly, the top shooters in our sport, we don't really get to shoot with them because they are on the super squad and we're not ...

Shooting a match where Max is participating but I never see him because he's on a different squad may be considered "shooting with the Pros" by some but for me I'm only shooting with them if I'm squadded with them which has only happened once so far ...

Lunch break is over so I have to get back at it with 'pro shooter' Ben Stoeger for the rest of the afternoon ... :)

Edited by Nimitz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nimitz hit the nail on the head with his last sentence.

Someone please tell me where I can get a driving lesson from Jeff Gordan, reading greens with Tiger, or free throw lessons from even a no name NBA star. When's my passing camp with Peyton start?

Within minutes on here we can be signed up for a class from Rob, Max or anyone that won nationals in the last decade for pennies compared to an intro course in golf from a big name pro.

Getting ammo or match fees paid doesn't mean you're a pro, it means someone likes you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is this serious? There are less than a dozen pros in shooting.

Until you quit your day job, a person isn't pro at anything. They're just better than other people.

Aren't there a lot of shooters, that get ammo, and match fees paid.
Sure there are some but they are hardly considered pro's.

But realistically this has to be why we have classes. The average C shooter isn't competing against a GM anyways.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When's my passing camp with Peyton start?

Peyton has a passing camp every summer in Thibodaux. If you were still in high school, you could come to it. And for a special treat, his brother and dad come too.

Edited by BARRYJ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got to thinking seriously about this recently. It's tough to deal with. You can only handle so many shooters at a big match. So you can't please the whole world.

But it gets dull knowing the the same ones are gonna win every match. They get all the prizes and the 98% of the rest pay the same entry fee.

Lucky for the sport that we all love it so much. A $200 t-shirt is kinda steep

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sure there are some but they are hardly considered pro's.

But realistically this has to be why we have classes. The average C shooter isn't competing against a GM anyways.

I am competing against everyone in my division, including GM's. Sure, I don't expect to beat some of the top dogs, but I still am using their scores to quantify my own performance and my improvement over time. Beating other guys in my 'class' is pretty meaningless.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But it gets dull knowing the the same ones are gonna win every match. They get all the prizes and the 98% of the rest pay the same entry fee.

Lucky for the sport that we all love it so much. A $200 t-shirt is kinda steep

$200 seems pretty reasonable to me for 14-16 stages that someone else sets up and tears down and double-checks, and for dedicated RO's so I don't have to try to plan my stage while running the timer or clipboard. If you just want prizes, skip the match, and spend the airfare or gas and hotel money and entry fee on a new gun. You should be able to buy at least 1 new prize gun for every major you skip.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...