motosapiens Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 To me it seems with the changes it's now closer to, but not entirely, a Production Optics division. But it isn't, you have slide cuts with grip reductions neither of which are allowed in Prod. I feel like this division turned into a restricted open. or something similar to what production should have been in the first place, since i'm not one of those who think it's required to have slide cuts or grip reductions in order to be competitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarosean Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 since i'm not one of those who think it's required to have slide cuts or grip reductions in order to be competitive. I dont think it matters one iota in the grand scheme of things.. However, I hate to see people bumped to open on something so trivial as being outside the lines on USPSA's diagram. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpaw Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 I really don't care one way or the other with the new rules on slide cuts and grip stippling. My CO gun wouldn't be any different if I were to build it now. I don't think these modifications really make a difference that you'll get a competitive advantage if you do them. It is however a slippery slope when you allow more modifications by creating the perception that you need to do these modifications to your CO gun to be competitive. I'm not saying that's reality, but if we want to keep this as a lower cost division we don't want the perception to be that you need a heavily modified gun. I think that's why they decided to draw the line at banning slide cuts all the way through the slide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 I don't understand why people want to shoot CO without an optic. If it were a 15 round division, I could see wanting to shoot irons with your Production rig. What am I missing here? I would say that it has more to do with some people not wanting to have to buy 2 new guns, mill 2 new slides, and buy 2 optics to have a backup gun if needed. That's what I'm not understanding. Why not just shoot those guns in Production if there is no intent to add an optic? The issue is having a backup gun for major matches. I'm not going to spend all that time and money traveling to a major match just to have my gun break on the first stage and I'm there without a backup gun. Previously I could have used my production gun as a backup to my CO gun, but now I can't. I've been enjoying shooting CO, but not enough to buy two CO guns... I'll loan you my backup gun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamann Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 So would the G34 Lonewolf slide be legal now? I know the bull front is slightly angled on the end. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mully383 Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 I'm new to the sport and co sounded fun... And it is. Lots of hating from the veterans is a real turn off though. Would of liked to see the round count bumped up to 15 too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 So would the G34 Lonewolf slide be legal now? I know the bull front is slightly angled on the end. I would say that it is but would get confirmation from DNROI before plunking down any $$$ on one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilkMyDuds Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 If you can shoot a production gun in limited and open, why not "Production Optics"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 If you can shoot a production gun in limited and open, why not "Production Optics"? You can, after you put an optic on it as required by the new appendix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onepocket Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Why did they make that rule? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 I guessing that after the year goes by the Optic requirement might go away. I think it might be to better gauge the participation. Either way I'm bothered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onepocket Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 I'm setting up my G26 to shoot in open with iron sights. Lots of fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 I'm setting up my G26 to shoot in open with iron sights. Lots of fun. That should go well, Glocks are a great platform for Open Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) Would of liked to see the round count bumped up to 15 too. we hate that idea. practice your reloads or shoot limited. Edited February 2, 2016 by motosapiens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 I'm setting up my G26 to shoot in open with iron sights. Lots of fun. That should go well, Glocks are a great platform for Open Damn straight. Perfection and all that . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onepocket Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) With open mags I think locally I can break top 5 with the 26. Especially if its a hose fest. Edited February 2, 2016 by Onepocket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 I'm new to the sport and co sounded fun... And it is. Lots of hating from the veterans is a real turn off though. Would of liked to see the round count bumped up to 15 too. Don't you love it when somebody new comes in and disses the people who have been here for a long time? Hang around for a while and find out what we're all about. There are actually some good veteran people here (and they're not required to agree with you - 1st Amendment and all that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1911Prof Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 I can see the appeal of CO, it is the development of carry guns for a lot of people and if we get new shooters, awesome. If you don't like CO, also fine, don't shoot it or contribute to the discussion in a way that help promote the sport. I think what Mully383 was referring to is the unnecessary snarky comments that seem to belittle something that people actually like. If you have been around a while and your intent is to help the sport grow, try to at least appear like you are being constructive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric4069 Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 I guessing that after the year goes by the Optic requirement might go away. I think it might be to better gauge the participation. Hope so. Would be nice for many to be able to bring along a Production gun as back up to CO gun when going to a major match. Im just going to keep an optic on my MP9 bedside gun as a backup CO gun even after my Shadow slide comes back from CZ Custom where I just shipped if for milling. Actually the MP9 is working very well as a CO gun for me already. Way more accurate than it ever was with iron sights for me. Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHLChris Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Concerning stippling and such, the new rules state: "Grip modifications such as, but not limited to, undercutting/smoothing the trigger guard, adding or removing finger grooves, or adding stippling, grip tape, or checkering are specifically allowed, without reference to Appendix E4." Does "without reference to App. E4" mean that we can stipple anywhere and everywhere that we desire? There is one spot on the left side of the frame where my support thumb rest that I'd love to be able to rough up or tape or stipple. App. E4 says that would be a no-go zone, but maybe this rules says I can? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHLChris Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 (edited) Second question, my carry gun (a G19Gen4) sports an RMR on top of a One Source Tactical slide. The forward serrations are specifically okay now in CO, but the front of the slide angles in like a G34/35. That is not the "same...contour...as the original slide." I'm wondering if I can use it. I'm sure it'll be fine in my local level 1 matches, but how about level 2 matches? Edited February 15, 2016 by CHLChris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Concerning stippling and such, the new rules state: "Grip modifications such as, but not limited to, undercutting/smoothing the trigger guard, adding or removing finger grooves, or adding stippling, grip tape, or checkering are specifically allowed, without reference to Appendix E4." Does "without reference to App. E4" mean that we can stipple anywhere and everywhere that we desire? There is one spot on the left side of the frame where my support thumb rest that I'd love to be able to rough up or tape or stipple. App. E4 says that would be a no-go zone, but maybe this rules says I can? Yup stipple the entire lower if you want. Just remember that doing do makes that grip no longer production legal though. Second question, my carry gun (a G19Gen4) sports an RMR on top of a One Source Tactical slide. The forward serrations are specifically okay now in CO, but the front of the slide angles in like a G34/35. That is not the "same...contour...as the original slide." I'm wondering if I can use it. I'm sure it'll be fine in my local level 1 matches, but how about level 2 matches? If you're talking about these slides (http://www.onesourcetactical.com/si319-slides.aspx#.VsJKicfpVBw) then yes you should be okay. It wouldn't hurt to sent an email to dnroi@uspsa.org just to double check though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word_Bro Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 Where can I find the approved gun list for carry optics division? And can I shoot my CZ TSO in CO? I think it would be BALLER to have a TSO with a red dot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 19 minutes ago, Word_Bro said: Where can I find the approved gun list for carry optics division? And can I shoot my CZ TSO in CO? I think it would be BALLER to have a TSO with a red dot Use the production gun list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooldylocks Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 Where can I find the approved gun list for carry optics division? And can I shoot my CZ TSO in CO? I think it would be BALLER to have a TSO with a red dotNo you can't. No SA guns. Also, see above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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