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To be honest, I had no plans to shoot CO....but the thought has been nagging at me...to a point where I am just about ready to build a pistol for it...as it stands now, I would prefer them to actually leave the weight limit IN the rules, so that those who have already laid the ground work for this new division are not suddenly pushed to the wayside by those with steel guns.

I think you will find that the weight is a trade off, I shot a lot of "Production Optics" prior to Carry Optics. I did this as a wildcat division in a non-affiliated match and as Open minor is affiliated matches. I also shot it in SC. Once Carry Optics was announced I set up a P-09 and have been shooting CO exclusively. Lighter is faster on the draw (not a big deal on non classifier stages) and faster on transitions (big deal on all stages). The recoil is not a big deal to me, and I do say to me. With a good grip and Minor ammo, recoil should not be a huge deal. The advantage of a steel gun to me (CZ) is the superior trigger of the Shadow over the P-09, namely the shorter reset as my P-09 trigger is super light. Personally when the buzzer goes off I find it difficult to tell much of a difference in trigger pull weights.

IF someone wanted to design a fitted Disco for the P-09, I believe that the P-09 could have a similar reset to the Shadow

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I saw OnePocket at the range yesterday and told him I just finished zeroing my CO gun. Proper forum decorum prevents me from sharing his reply :).

I think if the BoD chose to allow it for all levels of matches at the BoD meeting this past weekend then then we'll see participation increase. I plan to start shooting it in February with a Glock 17 and FF3 mounted in the rear sight dove tail. As soon as I can get my hands on one I'll have a Glock 17 MOS to shoot.

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I posted this in another thread but thought it applied here, too. Bottom line is it's just a game; a competition. Most of us aren't going to win any major titles. We compete in the sport for fun. Sure, we also pick up many pistol skills. But this isn't a life or death situation. It's just a game. And gamer's are going to game it. We all want to be as competitive as we can within the rules.

Other than LE or a handful of competitors, most people aren't using their carry/home defense gun as their comp gun. So the argument that CO shooters don't really carry their CO gun doesn't really matter. How many people carry their OPEN, LTD, PRD, SS, or REV? Yes, there are some that use their comp gun as their carry gun. But it's a small handful of people. The vast majority of us have dedicated comp guns, regardless of division, that while they may push the limits, they do fall within the rules. Why shouldn't CO be any different? It's a game. Gamer's are going to game it.

And it's also for that reason I wish they would have just made it Production Optics instead of Carry Optics. There will be people that also carry their CO gun, but I'm guessing it won't be many. Like we do in other divisions, most of us will have a dedicated CO gun.

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Xpd45 what do you do when its raining out? What's on duty, are you currently working as a LEO?

Yes. I'm a LEO. Right now I'm a Detective. Before that when I worked patrol I had a 226/RMR I carried on duty. I didn't have any insurmountable problems With the rain. It was no worse that having rain water on your glasses, really.

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I posted this in another thread but thought it applied here, too. Bottom line is it's just a game; a competition. Most of us aren't going to win any major titles. We compete in the sport for fun. Sure, we also pick up many pistol skills. But this isn't a life or death situation. It's just a game. And gamer's are going to game it. We all want to be as competitive as we can within the rules.

Other than LE or a handful of competitors, most people aren't using their carry/home defense gun as their comp gun. So the argument that CO shooters don't really carry their CO gun doesn't really matter. How many people carry their OPEN, LTD, PRD, SS, or REV? Yes, there are some that use their comp gun as their carry gun. But it's a small handful of people. The vast majority of us have dedicated comp guns, regardless of division, that while they may push the limits, they do fall within the rules. Why shouldn't CO be any different? It's a game. Gamer's are going to game it.

And it's also for that reason I wish they would have just made it Production Optics instead of Carry Optics. There will be people that also carry their CO gun, but I'm guessing it won't be many. Like we do in other divisions, most of us will have a dedicated CO gun.

You sort of answered your own question. The reason people are bringing the carry issue into the argument is because of Phil's rationale behind the weight limit and "Carry" moniker.

Of course most people don't carry their 2011 or Open gun in real life but there isn't the word "Carry" in front of those divisions.

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if you're going to talk about carry....... many many many people carry 4 and 5" 1911's, which weigh MUCH more than the weight limit for carry optics. Now we're killing kittens as fast as idpa.

I carried a combat commander and a full sized 1911 for over 20 years.

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I look at CO as a jumping off point for someone to test drive open class without taking the jump into the open gun equipment. The other way to look at it we have limited and limited 10 so why not open and carry optics.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

I've tried open, shooting Major PF. Too much for my arthritic hands and wrist to handle. I'm shooting a G19 with a RMR, and I love it. 130 PF is a long way from >170 PF.

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if you're going to talk about carry....... many many many people carry 4 and 5" 1911's, which weigh MUCH more than the weight limit for carry optics. Now we're killing kittens as fast as idpa.

When I started pushing PO/CO I really wanted 1911's included. I saw the division as "normal" type firearms, basically if an LEO would/could carry it, then I wanted it included. I see no reason to limit weight. I thought round limits would be enough to keep the field fairly level and not biased.

A 1911 in 9mm shooting minor with an optic would be fun. Damn fun.

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I posted this in another thread but thought it applied here, too. Bottom line is it's just a game; a competition. Most of us aren't going to win any major titles. We compete in the sport for fun. Sure, we also pick up many pistol skills. But this isn't a life or death situation. It's just a game. And gamer's are going to game it. We all want to be as competitive as we can within the rules.

Other than LE or a handful of competitors, most people aren't using their carry/home defense gun as their comp gun. So the argument that CO shooters don't really carry their CO gun doesn't really matter. How many people carry their OPEN, LTD, PRD, SS, or REV? Yes, there are some that use their comp gun as their carry gun. But it's a small handful of people. The vast majority of us have dedicated comp guns, regardless of division, that while they may push the limits, they do fall within the rules. Why shouldn't CO be any different? It's a game. Gamer's are going to game it.

And it's also for that reason I wish they would have just made it Production Optics instead of Carry Optics. There will be people that also carry their CO gun, but I'm guessing it won't be many. Like we do in other divisions, most of us will have a dedicated CO gun.

You sort of answered your own question. The reason people are bringing the carry issue into the argument is because of Phil's rationale behind the weight limit and "Carry" moniker.

Of course most people don't carry their 2011 or Open gun in real life but there isn't the word "Carry" in front of those divisions.

Exactly ...

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A 1911 in 9mm shooting minor with an optic would be fun. Damn fun.

and I don't really think plastic guns or DA unicorns would be at a disadvantage. I'm sure the top guys in the sport would all gravitate towards one gun, but that's because they are sheep, and that gun would change over the years, like it has in production, for reasons that have nothing to do with actual performance or advantage.

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Board minutes posted!

Carry Optics weight limit increased to 45 ounces including mag and optic.

Ok to add front slide serrations.

time to decide on sending my CZ SP01 Custom Shadow in for slide milling for optic ? ?

A bit hard to modify a gun I like so much already. May have to buy something new. (but if I do it will be a CZ model that uses the same mags).

Eric

I see now there is a new thread on this also

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Whoa guys.

Our new mission statement may be to grow participation at any cost.

CO is welcome and permanent. Get with the program, we need to be looking for the next group to include!

I have read this entire thread and have noticed some jokes being made about CO being more idpa > uspsa...

I agree with your post hombre... Don't dog on a division that you beat your competition to the punch with... It's not going to water down any of the main divisions except if anything, production, which is overcrowded as it is...

CO might bring more people in (myself included, as I don't own a limited gun and have only shot local matches classified as limited minor with a g34)

I have a Suarez glock 19 slide on order right now and look forward to shooting CO)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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People seem to be throwing around the statements "it will attract new shooters" and "it will not atract new shooters" like they are scientifically proven facts ..... It's all conjecture and anecdotal evidence at best at this point ... No one really knows what will happen until it happens. Who wants to argue that SS, L10 & Revo have high enough participation levels to warrent keeping them as divisions yet they've been around for years .... Once the division is made real and is around for a couple of years, only then will you know if it's worth keeping ..

I'm getting flashbacks to Pelosi's statement about Obamacare.

But in all seriousness, I agree with what you're saying to a certain extent.

CO was granted provisional status based on the arguments and rationale that it would help grow the sport. I'm sure you can understand that any time an individual or group makes an unsubstantiated claim or rationale, there will be debate.

Debating is a good thing. You can't fault someone for having an opinion that CO will grow the sport. Only time will tell if the that rationale was valid. I wasn't around then, but I wonder what the rationale was for open. I'll bet someone used the same rationale for open. How many off the street join USPSA to shoot open-not many, but open is a big part of USPSA. I can see people joining USPSA because of off-the-shelf CO guns.

I'm pretty late to the party, but had to comment on this. The rationale for Open? You are aware that when USPSA started there was only Open, right? ALL of the other divisions have been created because people wanted to create equal playing fields for the different styles of guns.

I think Carry Optics looks fun, and I'll probably get an upper set up for one of my Shadows so I can give it a try. There are almost no Open shooters around here, but I suspect they'll get quite a few CO shooters. I don't know if it's the depressed economy of the Midwest, or the fact that people can't shoot matches for more than about 8 months of the year, but there are very few Open shooters, and tons of Production shooters. When I lived out west there were tons of Open shooters and very few Production shooters. I suspect we'll have a much better idea of how CO will do by the end of summer.

I'm not sure why folks are so upset about this. It's not like people are going to leave the sport because there's a new Division available, and it might draw in a few new folks.

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I shot Carry Optics for the first time in a USPSA match this past weekend and I've found my new home. I thoroughly enjoyed shooting it. I'll shoot it from now on as long as the match offers it. If they don't I guess I'll just have to shoot open minor.

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