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My only criticism of CO is that it would have been nice to be able to use any gun already Production approved. As it is I had to buy a gun that met weight, versus being able to use one of several PRD guns I already own that didn't make weight.

What good is a new division to the manufacturer's that pushed it if it doesn't make people buy new guns?

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What year was that. Why did they feel the need for a single stack division? Again just asking!

I'm going to say somewhere between 2005-8. You'd need to look through BOD meeting minutes....

Actually narrowed it down a little by way of rulebooks: The division exists in the 2008 rulebook. I'm thinking '06 or possibly '07 was the provisional year. Probably '07 -- I'm thinking the push to make it official was due to the new rulebook coming out. So I'd start by looking at the Fall Board meeting for 2006 to look for the vote to establish the provisional division/approve its equipment rules, and then to look at fall 07 for the final approval.

It's possible that I'm off by a year -- but starting in 2006 should allow you to bracket....

Here are the original memo and the rules update.

1911_Single_Stack.pdf

1911_Single_Stack_12_2006_Update.pdf

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What year was that. Why did they feel the need for a single stack division? Again just asking!

I'm going to say somewhere between 2005-8. You'd need to look through BOD meeting minutes....

Actually narrowed it down a little by way of rulebooks: The division exists in the 2008 rulebook. I'm thinking '06 or possibly '07 was the provisional year. Probably '07 -- I'm thinking the push to make it official was due to the new rulebook coming out. So I'd start by looking at the Fall Board meeting for 2006 to look for the vote to establish the provisional division/approve its equipment rules, and then to look at fall 07 for the final approval.

It's possible that I'm off by a year -- but starting in 2006 should allow you to bracket....

Here are the original memo and the rules update.

This, would help Carry Optics, I sure haven't seen much of this.

"Marketing: Marketing of the provisional 1911 Single Stack Division will open possible

revenue streams to the Front Sight magazine and our tournament prize tables."

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Anyone that was around back then and really knows why SS was added please chime in. Production I get, cheap to get in the sport grab a gun off the shelf and go. Open is open. Limited iron sight with all the xtras. Limited 10 just sucks. (I do feel bad for you people that don't live in America anymore). WO you can't afford an open gun and don't want to shoot minor. Revolver you like old stuff and holding up the line. Just kidding.

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Anyone that was around back then and really knows why SS was added please chime in. Production I get, cheap to get in the sport grab a gun off the shelf and go. Open is open. Limited iron sight with all the xtras. Limited 10 just sucks. (I do feel bad for you people that don't live in America anymore). WO you can't afford an open gun and don't want to shoot minor. Revolver you like old stuff and holding up the line. Just kidding.

A short version of why is in the document that I posted 5 posts up. The announcement thread by Gary can be found here: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=20121&p=235355

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isnt today the Board mtg that decides our Carry Optics fate?? Here's hoping that the 35 ounce weight restriction goes away.

Eric

I believe the discussion by the BOD will be "if" they have enough data to move CO from Provisional to a fully recognized USPSA Division. I would bet the weight issue would be a rule change down the road if Provisional status is removed.

I think lifting the weight would piss off more people than it would please. For those in the camp of "I want to use my ACCU Shadow(or what gun I have), are you really going to pay $150 for slide milling + 300 to 500 for an optic and change the purpose of a $1600 base gun?

We are not IDPA, but I see CO Division created to support guns you would really carry concealed. Concealed Carry licences are through the roof. Personally, I don't want to see Open type guns in CO. I shoot open 99% of the time, but as soon as I have a solid CO gun I will be shooting CO. I might even shoot the CO Nats in Barry. I have LE friends that carry Optic guns and they are making plans to shoot Barry.

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Anyone that was around back then and really knows why SS was added please chime in. Production I get, cheap to get in the sport grab a gun off the shelf and go. Open is open. Limited iron sight with all the xtras. Limited 10 just sucks. (I do feel bad for you people that don't live in America anymore). WO you can't afford an open gun and don't want to shoot minor. Revolver you like old stuff and holding up the line. Just kidding.

USPSA combined with that other classic shooting organization...i forgot what it was called...that's why SS was created...

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My only criticism of CO is that it would have been nice to be able to use any gun already Production approved. As it is I had to buy a gun that met weight, versus being able to use one of several PRD guns I already own that didn't make weight.

What good is a new division to the manufacturer's that pushed it if it doesn't make people buy new guns?

Is there any evidence that a manufacturer other than Phil's new employer wanted a plastic only gun division?
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If they already had limited 10 what was the point of single stack?

Because 1911 guys weren't stomping all the Glock 22/35 shooters in L10, so they created their own division that nobody else can play in. So I think Welfare Optics is really Production with a dot, scored minor and only 10 rounds. What fun is that? I'm going to ask for Sub Compact Minor Concealed Super Senior, 7 rounds maximum, IWB holsters only, from concealment, and kick everybody's butt

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What percentage of sales of Sig, are plastic guns?

Whats a Sig? Oh, I know, they make those 1911's with rails.... Wait a moment, there were 4 used at the 2011 Production Nationals, out of 139, compared to 63 Glocks.

Edited by 9x45
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My only criticism of CO is that it would have been nice to be able to use any gun already Production approved. As it is I had to buy a gun that met weight, versus being able to use one of several PRD guns I already own that didn't make weight.

Yep, that's exactly why I have no interest in this division ... Not interested in buying another gun .... Remove the weight limit and my Shadow slide heads to a gunsmith the next day ...

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isnt today the Board mtg that decides our Carry Optics fate?? Here's hoping that the 35 ounce weight restriction goes away.

Eric

We are not IDPA, but I see CO Division created to support guns you would really carry concealed. Concealed Carry licences are through the roof. Personally, I don't want to see Open type guns in CO. I shoot open 99% of the time, but as soon as I have a solid CO gun I will be shooting CO. I might even shoot the CO Nats in Barry. I have LE friends that carry Optic guns and they are making plans to shoot Barry.

I agree. I don't see many people carrying XDm 5.25's or G34's concealed. We should impose a 4" barrel limit for CO.

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isnt today the Board mtg that decides our Carry Optics fate?? Here's hoping that the 35 ounce weight restriction goes away.

Eric

I believe the discussion by the BOD will be "if" they have enough data to move CO from Provisional to a fully recognized USPSA Division. I would bet the weight issue would be a rule change down the road if Provisional status is removed.

I think lifting the weight would piss off more people than it would please. For those in the camp of "I want to use my ACCU Shadow(or what gun I have), are you really going to pay $150 for slide milling + 300 to 500 for an optic and change the purpose of a $1600 base gun?

We are not IDPA, but I see CO Division created to support guns you would really carry concealed. Concealed Carry licences are through the roof. Personally, I don't want to see Open type guns in CO. I shoot open 99% of the time, but as soon as I have a solid CO gun I will be shooting CO. I might even shoot the CO Nats in Barry. I have LE friends that carry Optic guns and they are making plans to shoot Barry.

I Thought USPSA wasn't about guns people carry.

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isnt today the Board mtg that decides our Carry Optics fate?? Here's hoping that the 35 ounce weight restriction goes away.

Eric

I believe the discussion by the BOD will be "if" they have enough data to move CO from Provisional to a fully recognized USPSA Division. I would bet the weight issue would be a rule change down the road if Provisional status is removed.

I think lifting the weight would piss off more people than it would please. For those in the camp of "I want to use my ACCU Shadow(or what gun I have), are you really going to pay $150 for slide milling + 300 to 500 for an optic and change the purpose of a $1600 base gun?

We are not IDPA, but I see CO Division created to support guns you would really carry concealed. Concealed Carry licences are through the roof. Personally, I don't want to see Open type guns in CO. I shoot open 99% of the time, but as soon as I have a solid CO gun I will be shooting CO. I might even shoot the CO Nats in Barry. I have LE friends that carry Optic guns and they are making plans to shoot Barry.

I Thought USPSA wasn't about guns people carry.

Well, the division IS called Carry Optics.

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My only criticism of CO is that it would have been nice to be able to use any gun already Production approved. As it is I had to buy a gun that met weight, versus being able to use one of several PRD guns I already own that didn't make weight.

Yep, that's exactly why I have no interest in this division ... Not interested in buying another gun .... Remove the weight limit and my Shadow slide heads to a gunsmith the next day ...

I agree. Eyes getting older, optics are appealing. Buying a plastic gun is not (to me).

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Does anyone know anybody that carries a concealed pistol with an optic on it. "Wait wait hold on a minute let me get the cover off this thing"

You betcha! My EDC is my G19 with a RMR, in a Blade-Tech IWB Razor. Very comfortable. This is also my Steel pistol. I have a G21 with a RMR also, I shoot it in Carry Optics.

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