lcs Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Yeah, if we're going to promote something, let's promote singlestack, because every reasonable person already *has* a 1911 (and that's my preferred division, heh heh). Really? Single Stack--ever tried to get in SS Nationals. SS needs no help. Yes, I shot nats last year. Had no trouble getting in.... but I read the instructions. But it should be promoted at the local level, with more ss-specific matches. USPSA has done nothing to promote this division. In fact, the only people promoting it have been the ones that wanted it in the first place......... Are you talking SS or CO now? I am a MD and I don't "promote" any division at my matches. I support all USPSA Divisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Apparently Phil had a financial interest in setting a weight limit and getting the division approved. Where is he working now? I would be very careful of accusing someone in print. Phil can dispute it if he wants but Smith and Wesson lobbied USPSA for the division, now Phil is a paid shooter for Smith and Wesson. Facts are facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Yeah, if we're going to promote something, let's promote singlestack, because every reasonable person already *has* a 1911 (and that's my preferred division, heh heh). Really? Single Stack--ever tried to get in SS Nationals. SS needs no help. Yes, I shot nats last year. Had no trouble getting in.... but I read the instructions. But it should be promoted at the local level, with more ss-specific matches. USPSA has done nothing to promote this division. In fact, the only people promoting it have been the ones that wanted it in the first place......... Are you talking SS or CO now? I am a MD and I don't "promote" any division at my matches. I support all USPSA Divisions. I'm talking about SS, and mostly just mocking the idea that USPSA is on the hook for promoting the particular division that I favor. As I understand it a bunch of nice old guys wanted SS, so instead of making the pres do it, they put on a bigazz match and did it themselves, and they keep it going, and that's the way it should be imho. I am grateful to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) Slight thread drift but I assume all you on this thread who think CO should be sacked also believe PCC should not become a provisional division as well? Yep. PCC is for RIFLES and, despite being fun for those who own them, doesn't even belong in the discussion. Edited January 21, 2016 by teros135 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onepocket Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 Teros what does that even mean? Engrish please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Is Engrish your second language? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onepocket Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onepocket Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 No really what does that mean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGus Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 There are about a half a dozen guys in my area that are gearing up for CO for when the outdoor match season begins around March. Keep in mind there are a lot of area's that can't shoot matches year round. Once it warms up and the outdoor match season starts I think interest will continue to grow. I can see it becoming more popular than L10 and Rev in a few years. Just be patient and give it a few seasons to grow. It won't happen overnight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atbarr Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Haters, will hate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_striker Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 There are about a half a dozen guys in my area that are gearing up for CO for when the outdoor match season begins around March. Keep in mind there are a lot of area's that can't shoot matches year round. Once it warms up and the outdoor match season starts I think interest will continue to grow. I can see it becoming more popular than L10 and Rev in a few years. Just be patient and give it a few seasons to grow. It won't happen overnight. Are these guys already USPSA members? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 People seem to be throwing around the statements "it will attract new shooters" and "it will not atract new shooters" like they are scientifically proven facts ..... It's all conjecture and anecdotal evidence at best at this point ... No one really knows what will happen until it happens. Who wants to argue that SS, L10 & Revo have high enough participation levels to warrent keeping them as divisions yet they've been around for years .... Once the division is made real and is around for a couple of years, only then will you know if it's worth keeping .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atbarr Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 People seem to be throwing around the statements "it will attract new shooters" and "it will not atract new shooters" like they are scientifically proven facts ..... It's all conjecture and anecdotal evidence at best at this point ... No one really knows what will happen until it happens. Who wants to argue that SS, L10 & Revo have high enough participation levels to warrent keeping them as divisions yet they've been around for years .... Once the division is made real and is around for a couple of years, only then will you know if it's worth keeping .. Too much common sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_striker Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) People seem to be throwing around the statements "it will attract new shooters" and "it will not atract new shooters" like they are scientifically proven facts ..... It's all conjecture and anecdotal evidence at best at this point ... No one really knows what will happen until it happens. Who wants to argue that SS, L10 & Revo have high enough participation levels to warrent keeping them as divisions yet they've been around for years .... Once the division is made real and is around for a couple of years, only then will you know if it's worth keeping .. I'm getting flashbacks to Pelosi's statement about Obamacare. But in all seriousness, I agree with what you're saying to a certain extent. CO was granted provisional status based on the arguments and rationale that it would help grow the sport. I'm sure you can understand that any time an individual or group makes an unsubstantiated claim or rationale, there will be debate. Edited January 22, 2016 by d_striker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcs Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 People seem to be throwing around the statements "it will attract new shooters" and "it will not atract new shooters" like they are scientifically proven facts ..... It's all conjecture and anecdotal evidence at best at this point ... No one really knows what will happen until it happens. Who wants to argue that SS, L10 & Revo have high enough participation levels to warrent keeping them as divisions yet they've been around for years .... Once the division is made real and is around for a couple of years, only then will you know if it's worth keeping .. I'm getting flashbacks to Pelosi's statement about Obamacare. But in all seriousness, I agree with what you're saying to a certain extent. CO was granted provisional status based on the arguments and rationale that it would help grow the sport. I'm sure you can understand that any time an individual or group makes an unsubstantiated claim or rationale, there will be debate. Debating is a good thing. You can't fault someone for having an opinion that CO will grow the sport. Only time will tell if the that rationale was valid. I wasn't around then, but I wonder what the rationale was for open. I'll bet someone used the same rationale for open. How many off the street join USPSA to shoot open-not many, but open is a big part of USPSA. I can see people joining USPSA because of off-the-shelf CO guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onepocket Posted January 22, 2016 Author Share Posted January 22, 2016 How much time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 The last provisional division to become a full division was SS. It was supposed to be provisional with data collection for three years, but after ~ 1 year the BOD voted to halt the provisional data collection and experiment and to make it a full division..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onepocket Posted January 22, 2016 Author Share Posted January 22, 2016 Thanks Nik, that answered my question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onepocket Posted January 22, 2016 Author Share Posted January 22, 2016 What year was that. Why did they feel the need for a single stack division? Again just asking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGus Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) There are about a half a dozen guys in my area that are gearing up for CO for when the outdoor match season begins around March. Keep in mind there are a lot of area's that can't shoot matches year round. Once it warms up and the outdoor match season starts I think interest will continue to grow. I can see it becoming more popular than L10 and Rev in a few years. Just be patient and give it a few seasons to grow. It won't happen overnight. Are these guys already USPSA members? Yes. The lowest class shooter is a B class PRD. And that would be me. The others gearing up are B class through M class. An Open class shooter, four Production shooters, and one Limited shooter. Edited January 22, 2016 by JGus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronArcher Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Good point. Never understood the magazine limit to ten, no magwell or compensator. Or setting it up mainly for plastic guns.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Just to make a correction, Phil is now with Sig, not S&W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 What year was that. Why did they feel the need for a single stack division? Again just asking! I'm going to say somewhere between 2005-8. You'd need to look through BOD meeting minutes.... Actually narrowed it down a little by way of rulebooks: The division exists in the 2008 rulebook. I'm thinking '06 or possibly '07 was the provisional year. Probably '07 -- I'm thinking the push to make it official was due to the new rulebook coming out. So I'd start by looking at the Fall Board meeting for 2006 to look for the vote to establish the provisional division/approve its equipment rules, and then to look at fall 07 for the final approval. It's possible that I'm off by a year -- but starting in 2006 should allow you to bracket.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Nik: It was 2006... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGus Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 My only criticism of CO is that it would have been nice to be able to use any gun already Production approved. As it is I had to buy a gun that met weight, versus being able to use one of several PRD guns I already own that didn't make weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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