CFE Pistol in 45acp

[Rodger]

Has anyone else found the Hodgdon velocity off for 230gr bullets. I started at 6.2 and went up to 7.2 and only got 857 fps over the chronograph. This is with a M&P 4.5" .

[Steve RA]

That is a 197PF which is pretty healthy.

[elgatto]

Rodger and all,

I collected some data this past weekend with my Springfield 1911 RO, CFE-P, and Missouri 230gr softballs.

I think Hodgdon is way overquoting velocities on their online manual. The below is from 10 shot strings, Chrony was 5 feet in front of the muzzle. Ammo was loaded on a Dillon 550B, COAL was 1.225" which brings the shoulder of the driving band on the softball to the case mouth. Blazer not-new brass, Winchester small pistol primers.

5.6 grains: 726.5 avg, 22.7 std-dev, 89 spread

5.8 grains: 753.1 avg, 19.9 std-dev, 67 spread

6.0 grains: 774.1 avg, 17.9 std-dev, 55 spread

Hodgdon's Book Data for 230 gr LRN: 5.4gr starting @ 816 fps, 6.2gr max @ 942 fps. (calls for 1.200" COAL - too short for Missouri softballs)

I also loaded a 10 shot string of Hornady HAP 230 grain and got the following:

6.3 grains: 775.2 avg, 11.2 std-dev, 35 spread.

There's still some room to play with here, Hodgdon's book goes up to 6.8 grains and I think 830 fps may be achievable. There's no specific data available for the HAP bullet and I'm substituting FMJ data.

As a control, I also shot 10 rounds of Speer Gold Dot 230 grain std pressure: 811.8 avg, 10.1 std-dev, 28 spread

And 10 rounds of Blazer Brass 230 grain ball: 796.1 avg, 6.5 std-dev, 20 spread (pretty darn good!)

I'm not seeing a really good path to hitting Army ball spec of 830 fps using lead and CFE-P. Next-up is some Berry's and some Hornady FMJ; I'm thinking the lead .452" has too much drag in the barrel (??).

-Steve

Edited March 1, 2016 by elgatto

[Kosh75287]

I think CFE-Pistol is the one that Hodgdon lists as propelling a 200 gr. LSWC at 1142 f/s. That's 10mm Auto territory. I feel like Mulder and Scully... I WANT to believe...

[mont1120]

I think you might want to try a different firearm. Now, I personally do not like CFE, it did not feel good in the recoil department, and I was not that impressed to the point I would change powders. Having said that, at the Nationals two years ago, my rear sight on my .45 Kimber came off, broke my tooth when in hit me in the mouth, and I then requested a change in firearms. The RO cleared that, and sent me right to the chrono stage.

I had already gotten a 172-173 PF with the Kimber, so I thought no sweat. Well after the 2nd round the sweat was pouring alright. I was just under minimum PF for major, same ammo that I used in the Kimber. My third round was taken apart, and I got lucky, the round weighed 230.9 grains, and I made PF to the major level, barely. For some reason my SA barrel was that much slower, so if I was you, try the same load in a different gun, and see what you get.

Edited March 8, 2016 by mont1120

[elgatto]

UPDATED DATA:

Hodgdon velocity data is still considerably higher than measured velocity out of my S.A. R.O.

Missouri LRN 230gr, Mixed Brass, Win LP

6.2 grains: 856 avg, 12.8 std-dev, 47 spread

Hornady HAP 230gr, Mixed Brass, Win LP

6.6 grains: 831 avg, 14.5 std-dev, 47 spread

6.8 grains: 854 avg, 13.8 std-dev, 43 spread

Hornady HAP 230gr, Blazer Brass, Win SP

6.6 grains: 804 avg, 17.3 std-dev, 70 spread

6.8 grains: 830 avg, 25.2 std-dev, 81 spread

Moral of the story... dont use small pistol primers with CFE-P in a 45ACP case.

I also had some Remington 5 1/2 Mag primers lying around...

Hornady XTP 230gr, Blazer Brass, Rem 5 1/2

6.5 grains: 833 avg, 15.5 std-dev, 50 spread

So Win LP or Rem 5 1/2 from now on in 45 ACP for me. I'm going to reserve the CFE-P for my 9mm loads. It seems to work real well in that caliber and the hodgdon data matches what my chrono is saying is coming out of my Beretta 92. For 45 ACP, I'm sticking with Bullseye and Tightgroup.

-Steve

Edited March 23, 2016 by elgatto

[WImedic]

I have started playing with some CFE pistol for .45 major. I am shooting a 5" Kimber with factory barrel. Using 185gr berrys plated hollow base round nose, oal=1.285, light crimp, cci large pistol primers and 7.0 gr of powder. muzzle velocity is 890 average and 1.5" groups at 75 feet from a sandbag. cycles well, very little flash, no signs of pressure issues but is not very "soft" as far as recoil.