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DQ or no DQ (quick vid)


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For your viewing pleasure and to add to the discussion. What does everyone think of this?

I say DQ! He actually gets a reshoot.

Just a side note, this is not me but just a video I watched after I shot this match.

if it's USPSA, DQ per 10.4.5.

i watched nils retrieve his shotgun at the 2015 mg nationals and blow a chunk of the table off. was dq'd and reinstated cause at the time there was no rule to cover it-but there is now. (MG 10.4.6)

Sometimes it depends on who you are!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If that is not un safe gun handling I don't know what is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do you have to have a rule that if you blow the table apart it is a DQ?

Give me a break!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Definitely USGH. He was rectifying a Malfunction and the gun went off. No way he intended that shot, although he did appear very calm.

THIS IS A GAME! If we allow things like this to go ahead, we will not have a game. All it will take is a round out of the range, or worse and we can kiss a match good bye. Hey, if people are shooting back, we'll talk about your skill set later, if we can, but at a match, Pack it up, you are done shooting.

This was without a doubt an Unintended discharge of a firearm.

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In the second video the competitor clearly stated he was aiming at the berm when the shot went off and he was in control the whole time. Rules are very specific...DQ. So what's the probem?

problem is, he is aloud to shoot that stage 2 more times. There was a prop malfunction on his second run.

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In the second video the competitor clearly stated he was aiming at the berm when the shot went off and he was in control the whole time. Rules are very specific...DQ. So what's the probem?

To me, it's the fact that the SO's made the correct call. But then were overridden by the MD. That was a DQ.

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The MD was never involved (as far as I know) the RO was talked out of it by him and his friends. The MD is very well known and would not have let this slide, I work a BIG match for him locally and thats why I go to his matches.

I think the bigger problem is grown men not taking responsibility for their actions!

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The MD was never involved (as far as I know) the RO was talked out of it by him and his friends. The MD is very well known and would not have let this slide, I work a BIG match for him locally and thats why I go to his matches.

I think the bigger problem is grown men not taking responsibility for their actions!

That is disappointing.

Not sure how you can justify lighting a round off at waist level looking at the ground while clearing a malfunction. They must of been very convincing.

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DQ, round fired during a reload (meaning other than while engaging targets).

By the way, my one and only DQ thus far (and I hope it stays that way) was basically the same thing. I was getting up from prone and doing a reload. I had video and I could see that my finger hit the mag release on the rifle, then skipped off the edge of the button and went into the trigger guard.

As it happens, I do not have big hands and my reach to a mil-spec mag release on an AR is . . . marginal. Once I realized what happened, I fiddled at home at found a hard press with a stiff finger could easily repeat that process. I have since switched to oversized mag releases on all of my ARs, and the extra real estate mitigates the issue nicely.

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He hadn't started reloading yet, the rifle was still shouldered, and he fired at the targets. It would be pretty hard to DQ him for that.

The screen cap attached is within a couple of frames of the shot. The support hand is off the rifle and reaching for a magazine. The rifle has been dropped slightly and canted right, to line up the magwell with an incoming magazine. The shooter's eyes are watching the magazine/magwell. Please tell me how he has not "started a reload" yet.

This is a DQ for a shot fired during a reload, plain and simple.

post-16509-0-92011100-1452649681_thumb.p

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Sorry DQ. I was waiting for RO to stop him when round broke. Also in the moment how as the RO do you know that round didn't break the top of the berm. I had to watch it two or three times to catch the splash because of all the grass. As the RO of the stage, provided this isn't your first shooter you know where rounds land in relation to your targets which nothing should ever hit so high on your berm on purpose. Need to allow for an oops round or two from shooters.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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Hello everyone, I am the shooter in the 2nd video. This is not a AD, I fired the shot on purpose. I know it's hard to see from the angle of the camera, I had a live round suck in the chamber, I could not clear it out, so I locked my arm in place and pulled the trigger. Luckily the weapon fired, clearing the spent case and I was back in action. I was in full control, and was aware of my surrounding. The RO did DQ me, but we discussed the issue with the MD, and he decided to give me a reshoot. I am thankful to the MD, and the RO for both of their decision.

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

Edited by Tomta1969
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Why would you not take aim instead of hip firing the gun?

I'd have DQ'd both shooters as well... First one definitely reloading and should have been stopped.

I put a round into the ground 2 weeks ago on a draw. I DQ'd myself, cleared and holstered before my squad knew what happened.

We have rules for a reason and no one is immune to accidents.

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  • 3 weeks later...

from the vid it's crystal clear; finger slipped during reload resulting in an AD. easy call.

Hello everyone, I am the shooter in the 2nd video. This is not a AD, I fired the shot on purpose. I know it's hard to see from the angle of the camera, I had a live round suck in the chamber, I could not clear it out, so I locked my arm in place and pulled the trigger. Luckily the weapon fired, clearing the spent case and I was back in action. I was in full control, and was aware of my surrounding. The RO did DQ me, but we discussed the issue with the MD, and he decided to give me a reshoot. I am thankful to the MD, and the RO for both of their decision.

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

from my point of view, you were busy at clearing the gun or something , not in a proper target engagement. his call was clean. you obtained a reshoot, good for you but it was an obvious ad according to the rules.

Edited by sigsauerfan
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Hello everyone, I am the shooter in the 2nd video. This is not a AD, I fired the shot on purpose. I know it's hard to see from the angle of the camera [...]

from my point of view, you were busy at clearing the gun or something , not in a proper target engagement. his call was clean. you obtained a reshoot, good for you but it was an obvious ad according to the rules.

Taking Tomta1969 at his word, I think this is a case where the RO could be proper in calling a DQ, even if it is not correct. It's pretty clear that, from the RO's point of view, it would be hard to see that the shot was intentional. Therefore it looks like an AD and the RO is supposed to stop things right there.

Now, a lot of rules that I have seen talk about appealing a DQ to the MD or RM and say something to the effect that you can not argue safety issues in an appeal, just rules. In a situation like that, it would literally be impermissible for you to to make the case that the action the RO called unsafe was actually safe. This doesn't mean an RM wouldn't listen to you, just that according to rules like this he would not have to listen to you. Short of the RO at that point backing off and saying, "Well, maybe it was an intentional shot..." the DQ is going to go through no matter what.

Lastly, there is arbitration at matches that allow that. You pays your money, you takes your chances, and an arbitration panel can hear anything they want and decide any way they want. At this point, you could get the DQ overturned if you are lucky.

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I did take aim, and I hit my intended target. I was within the rules of 3gun.

Something I am trying to work on, is to make sure that I do not put the s.o. / r.o. in a postition where he is forced to make a judgement call in real time based on a limited view (or in this case both a limited view and ignorance of what you were thinking). The learning I get from your video is that you put yourself in a position where a DQ was likely instead of making your actions visible and apparent. My guess is that if you found yourself in a similar situation you would make it apparent that the shot in question was aimed and deliberate?

Back to the original post - DQ appears to be the consensus (that is what I would have called as well) - I really do like the way the r.o. handled things however, he was not sure (eyes may have been on the gun and not even seen what the hands were doing perhaps) and there was not an ongoing safety concern so he did not make the call.

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I'm the OP and the shooter in the OP video. No doubt that I was surprised by the shot between reloads but in my mind I still had my rifle shouldered and I felt like the shot was released just to the right of the target. I got no call to stop and so I proceeded. There was some debate between RO's after ULSC and one of the RO's said they should have called it when it happened and therefor didn't DQ me. We watched the video and I was surprised to see how things looked a little different from what my mind was telling me happened.

Things like this can happen pretty quickly and we don't have the chance to review a video when making the call. No doubt that we should err on the side of safety but I also think we should give the shooter the benefit of the doubt when its questionable. Sometimes there is a fine line between the two and being knowledgeable about the current rules of the game will help making calls accurately.

I appreciate the feedback and I would like to think in the future that I will stop myself in the event that I have something like this happen.

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First time I have ever had this happen. I went for a mandatory rifle reload and squeezed off a round before releasing the mag. I was baffled by this because I feel I'm very safety conscience. A close inspection of video shows that it looks like my finger slipped off the mag release after I removed my hand from the handgaurd.

I'm curious to hear if someone else has a different opinion of what I'm seeing.

I'm also curious if you think this should be a DQ or not. There was some debate. The round went in a safe direction and I think the only argument is that the round went off "during a reload. When does a reload start?

https://youtu.be/17rsydJvnFA

You DQ'd, however, it is part of the game and shooting. You did have good muzzle awareness. I guarantee you learned something and won't do it again, in that a good lesson. By the way great hat, thank you for the support.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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IMHO

DQ

Weapon was off his cheek, in the middle of reloading.

Shooter has DQ'ed himself.

Mike

You don't have to have the gun on your cheek to make a shot. I have made plenty of point shooting type shots over barricades with targets angled against the ground and they were intentional shots.

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