Kosh75287 Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 (edited) More discussion of E3 on another forum: http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=62732.0 A QUICK WARNING:For any inexperienced/new reloaders looking at this thread, there is NO published data for this powder with pistol rounds. It's a match-grade shotgun powder. Alliant has expressed their intention to publish pistol data for it in the future, but there's no guarantee that when they do publish data for it that the data will include 9mm. In the meantime, they have suggested Red Dot data minus 10% is a safe place to start.Remember that if you choose to load with e3, you are in uncharted territory. If you don't have a chrono, don't even think about it. If you do have a chrono, I would personally recommend starting low and working up. Many are looking at 3.0gr as a safe starting load for 124/125gr bullets, and a few tenths lower for heavier bullets. Mining other people's data on the internet will net you other people's higher working loads, but unless you start low and work up with a chrono, you don't really have anything to judge pressure by. And when you're in uncharted territory, don't rely on other people's measuring devices working the same as yours. Start low and work up. Start low and work up. Also, while I have not experienced this myself (because I haven't gone this far), I have read others discussing getting over-pressure signs in primers at 4.2-4.4 with various 124/125 bullets. This does NOT mean you should consider 4.2gr the upper limit. Over-pressure signs in RIFLE cartridges, IF you have the experience-base to do it, and IF you have a baseline with that powder, primer, case, bullet, and rifle, can let you know you're going too far. That's with rifle. It's not the same with pistol. With pistol, if you get pressure signs, it's a sign you went too far a while ago. Pressure signs at 4.2-4.4 with e3 in 9mm is not indication that 4.2 is the limit. It's an indication that the limit was passed a couple charges ago. Keep that in mind.You can load 9mm with this powder, but move slowly and be careful. I'm KINDA getting the impression that E3 may be more trouble than it's worth to use in even moderate-pressure pistol cartridges. Is the attraction that it burns so exceedingly clean, while making necessary PFs? Or is the expense/ unavailability of preferred powders forcing high-volume shooters to find acceptable substitutes in all the strangest places? One of the posters from the above thread remarked that the imported powder he preferred to use was $42/lb, and was shopping around fro less expensive. EVEN SO, if said poster finds a usable powder for, say, 1/3 less than the cost of his preferred powder, he'd have to burn 50 - 100 pounds of powder and amass the savings religiously, to justify the risk involved in an overcharge from a "not thoroughly explored" propellant wrecking a new stock, or mid-scale modified pistol. That's 1 or 2 pounds of powder/week, assuming 1800+ rounds shot every week, without fail. These volumes might be typical of the top-most competitors in the sport, or someone else who is well-funded and coming up, but these shooters usually have at least one other race-gun sitting in their safe or at a gunsmith's shop, awaiting use if something goes wrong with the one they're using. Who else does that, or could even AFFORD to do that? If the motivation behind trying E3 in race-guns is to see if there's anything better out there, or to just see if it'll work, in the hope of stumbling onto some other discovery that is REALLY noteworthy, I'm not unsympathetic. But neither am I CONSUMED with innovative enthusiasm. What gives? Edited February 7, 2016 by Kosh75287 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absocold Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 I recommended it (with qualifications) for .45, another person said he's seen 9mm data. No one in this thread has said it's a good idea for 9mm or any other caliber. In .45acp, E3 is inexpensive, extremely clean, low smoke and is surprisingly soft shooting. And when the shelves were empty of powders for over a year, E3 was reasonably easy to find - which is why I originally gave it a try. Except for the smooth and easy recoil, I see no reason for anyone to prefer this powder if there are tested and proven choices available. I know a few guys shooting .40 who swear that E3 is the best powder by far for them, they rave about the accuracy they get with it. But again, higher pressure round than .45, I can't recommend it. 45's love shotgun powders, which is what E3 is. But using shotgun powder in most other pistols is probably asking for trouble. PS. Let's not drive this thread further off the rails. Anyone else have a pet hardball load to recommend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashAndPoof Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 Been loading my 45 ACP with CFE Pistol because that's all I can find. How does CFE Pistol stack up against these other suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Husker95 Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 Im using CFE Pistol and its ok - not great. I bought a bunch when it was the only thing on the shelf and I was running out of Clays. I load to an OAL of 1.250 with moly 230 bullets. Nice and soft but really dirty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeEB Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 i'm using xtreme bullets. 230 gr rn 5.2 gr vv 320 1.25 gives me about 800 fps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLeeCZ Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 (edited) 4.3 WST 230 gr SNS coated RN Going to try this. With powder showing up, able to find WST locally. Been shooting 4.6gr 700X for a while. Very accurate. Love the SNS coated NLG bullets. Edited April 30, 2016 by JLeeCZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowenbuilt Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 If anything e3 is NOT by any means "uncharted". It is one of the most stable and predictable powders made. There are no surprises or unpredictable pressure spikes like Clays. There are hundreds of loads on this website using e3 in everything from 9mm to .45 Colt. There is no problem metering it if you are using a Dillon measure. If I could only have one powder for this sport, 9 Major not withstanding, e3 would be that choice. There is absolutely no reason to fear e3, it is one of the most predictable powders on the market with no surprises. Don't knock it in .40 or 9 if you have not tried it, it is outstanding in both calibers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
os2 Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 (edited) 3.8gr of Clays or 3.85gr of N310 makes about 170PF with 230gr coated Bayou or Blue Bullets in my STI Trojan1.25" OAL Edited June 1, 2016 by os2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
os2 Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Clays, its back, just have to look Australian factory had been reportedly burned down couple years ago, but Clays is available again and it is now made in Canada. Looks like price went up though - I bought 4lb jars for $95 at Green Top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek45 Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 3.8gr CLAYS / 230gr makes major shoot soft accurate burns clean 3.8gr is affordable yield was hard to find, . . . but seeing on the shelves again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustybayonet Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 My dream load for accuracy is unique, It works with all the bullets I have loaded: plated, coated, jacketed and lead. I don't have a chrono, so I never checked the PF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabulldog91 Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 Right now im loading Titegroup at 4.7 under a 230 berrys and i am getting good major power factor loads but I am looking at swaping to Hodgdon Clays becuase I have 2 pounds of it on my shelf. I loaded a test batch and they were super consistent just super hot (910-915) whats a good major power factor load for Clays? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mont1120 Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 At Area 1 I came up with 171 PF with 3.9 grns of Clays. Using 230grain Blue Bullets, and am super happy with them. I've noted 4.0 grains is the max, and from this forum the consensus is to not go any higher. Between 169 to 171 is the best place to be in loading for competition as it gives you cushion in the event unknown variables enter to change performance of the round. This could include temperature, humidity, altitude, or a chronograph not working quite right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek45 Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 3.75gr CLAYS 230gr BLUE-BULLET coated KART 5" 1911 barrel 767.3 fps average 176.48 power factor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustybayonet Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 Unique is my choice. 5.8 grains under a Missouri 230 softball. I love unique for 230 45acp. I always do great on the bowling pin circut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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