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What's a good 230gr load?


Superpipe9

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More discussion of E3 on another forum: http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=62732.0

A QUICK WARNING:

For any inexperienced/new reloaders looking at this thread, there is NO published data for this powder with pistol rounds. It's a match-grade shotgun powder. Alliant has expressed their intention to publish pistol data for it in the future, but there's no guarantee that when they do publish data for it that the data will include 9mm. In the meantime, they have suggested Red Dot data minus 10% is a safe place to start.

Remember that if you choose to load with e3, you are in uncharted territory. If you don't have a chrono, don't even think about it. If you do have a chrono, I would personally recommend starting low and working up. Many are looking at 3.0gr as a safe starting load for 124/125gr bullets, and a few tenths lower for heavier bullets. Mining other people's data on the internet will net you other people's higher working loads, but unless you start low and work up with a chrono, you don't really have anything to judge pressure by. And when you're in uncharted territory, don't rely on other people's measuring devices working the same as yours. Start low and work up. Start low and work up. wink.gif

Also, while I have not experienced this myself (because I haven't gone this far), I have read others discussing getting over-pressure signs in primers at 4.2-4.4 with various 124/125 bullets. This does NOT mean you should consider 4.2gr the upper limit. Over-pressure signs in RIFLE cartridges, IF you have the experience-base to do it, and IF you have a baseline with that powder, primer, case, bullet, and rifle, can let you know you're going too far. That's with rifle. It's not the same with pistol. With pistol, if you get pressure signs, it's a sign you went too far a while ago. Pressure signs at 4.2-4.4 with e3 in 9mm is not indication that 4.2 is the limit. It's an indication that the limit was passed a couple charges ago. Keep that in mind.

You can load 9mm with this powder, but move slowly and be careful. wink.gif

I'm KINDA getting the impression that E3 may be more trouble than it's worth to use in even moderate-pressure pistol cartridges. Is the attraction that it burns so exceedingly clean, while making necessary PFs? Or is the expense/ unavailability of preferred powders forcing high-volume shooters to find acceptable substitutes in all the strangest places?

One of the posters from the above thread remarked that the imported powder he preferred to use was $42/lb, and was shopping around fro less expensive. EVEN SO, if said poster finds a usable powder for, say, 1/3 less than the cost of his preferred powder, he'd have to burn 50 - 100 pounds of powder and amass the savings religiously, to justify the risk involved in an overcharge from a "not thoroughly explored" propellant wrecking a new stock, or mid-scale modified pistol. That's 1 or 2 pounds of powder/week, assuming 1800+ rounds shot every week, without fail. These volumes might be typical of the top-most competitors in the sport, or someone else who is well-funded and coming up, but these shooters usually have at least one other race-gun sitting in their safe or at a gunsmith's shop, awaiting use if something goes wrong with the one they're using. Who else does that, or could even AFFORD to do that?

If the motivation behind trying E3 in race-guns is to see if there's anything better out there, or to just see if it'll work, in the hope of stumbling onto some other discovery that is REALLY noteworthy, I'm not unsympathetic. But neither am I CONSUMED with innovative enthusiasm. What gives?

Edited by Kosh75287
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I recommended it (with qualifications) for .45, another person said he's seen 9mm data. No one in this thread has said it's a good idea for 9mm or any other caliber.

In .45acp, E3 is inexpensive, extremely clean, low smoke and is surprisingly soft shooting. And when the shelves were empty of powders for over a year, E3 was reasonably easy to find - which is why I originally gave it a try. Except for the smooth and easy recoil, I see no reason for anyone to prefer this powder if there are tested and proven choices available.

I know a few guys shooting .40 who swear that E3 is the best powder by far for them, they rave about the accuracy they get with it. But again, higher pressure round than .45, I can't recommend it.

45's love shotgun powders, which is what E3 is. But using shotgun powder in most other pistols is probably asking for trouble.

PS. Let's not drive this thread further off the rails. Anyone else have a pet hardball load to recommend?

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  • 2 months later...

Im using CFE Pistol and its ok - not great. I bought a bunch when it was the only thing on the shelf and I was running out of Clays. I load to an OAL of 1.250 with moly 230 bullets. Nice and soft but really dirty.

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  • 2 weeks later...

4.3 WST 230 gr SNS coated RN

Going to try this. With powder showing up, able to find WST locally. Been shooting 4.6gr 700X for a while. Very accurate. Love the SNS coated NLG bullets.

Edited by JLeeCZ
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  • 2 weeks later...

If anything e3 is NOT by any means "uncharted". It is one of the most stable and predictable powders made. There are no surprises or unpredictable pressure spikes like Clays. There are hundreds of loads on this website using e3 in everything from 9mm to .45 Colt. There is no problem metering it if you are using a Dillon measure. If I could only have one powder for this sport, 9 Major not withstanding, e3 would be that choice. There is absolutely no reason to fear e3, it is one of the most predictable powders on the market with no surprises. Don't knock it in .40 or 9 if you have not tried it, it is outstanding in both calibers.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Clays, its back, just have to look

Australian factory had been reportedly burned down couple years ago, but Clays is available again and it is now made in Canada.

Looks like price went up though - I bought 4lb jars for $95 at Green Top

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Right now im loading Titegroup at 4.7 under a 230 berrys and i am getting good major power factor loads but I am looking at swaping to Hodgdon Clays becuase I have 2 pounds of it on my shelf. I loaded a test batch and they were super consistent just super hot (910-915) whats a good major power factor load for Clays?

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At Area 1 I came up with 171 PF with 3.9 grns of Clays. Using 230grain Blue Bullets, and am super happy with them. I've noted 4.0 grains is the max, and from this forum the consensus is to not go any higher. Between 169 to 171 is the best place to be in loading for competition as it gives you cushion in the event unknown variables enter to change performance of the round.

This could include temperature, humidity, altitude, or a chronograph not working quite right.

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