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Moltke

Rifle splits

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After shooting some 3GN regionals this year it was apparent to me that my rifle splits and transitions inside 50 yards are slower than other people and I think its because I DO in fact make sure to see my sights for every shot instead of double tapping papers. Who here is just straight up double tapping and moving on?

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I seem to recall, a year or two ago, that someone posted (One of our

esteemed rifle experts) that they had a gun double on them, and

they hit a 8" plate twice at 75 yards (both numbers are probably

as close as my old brain will remember, but not exact).

Sounds to me like a true double tap should be possible with

a good set up/comp. :cheers:

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The dot doesn't have to recover. You can keep it in view the whole time. When you fire the 2nd shot you can still see if the dot was on or off the target. I would never suggesting throwing 2 shots with 1 sight picture.

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There should be a sight picture for every shot. You should not be losing the target with an ar. If you are, something is wrong. I'm just a regular shooter, but I'm running splits in the .16-.18 range and seeing every shot. It may be time to call up a local GM and get a lesson. You aren't too far from Larry Brown. He can be a little abrasive at a match, because he is an intense competitor, but I can promise you, when you take a lesson from him, you are his number one priority. I had been a competitor for years, and my scores had plateaued, so I figured I needed a lesson. Man, what an eye opener. Worth every penny.

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If you practice and have good form and a comp that is tuned to hold you pretty steady, double taps with no intentionally second sight picture inside of 25 is very reasonable.

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The "quicker" guys might be running adjustable gas, hoser loads and lightened bolts and buffers. Or have names like Jordan, Horner or Miculek.

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On 12/22/2015 at 0:39 PM, Moltke said:

 Who here is just straight up double tapping and moving on?

*raises hand*

 

 

To a point I guess.  If I notice my dot wander off the target in the duration of breaking two shots, I will re-engage.  Rifle length gas, LMOS carrier, adjustable gas, compensator, somewhat heavy barrel....  If my dot is on the target when the first shot breaks it is rarely off the target as the second shot breaks.  I am pretty much shooting one sight picture, two shots, on hoser rifle paper.  


Vertical video example:  Old, old video....

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMYTdsc3FUQ

Edited by Vespid_Wasp

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On ‎6‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 7:29 PM, Vespid_Wasp said:

*raises hand*

 

 

To a point I guess.  If I notice my dot wander off the target in the duration of breaking two shots, I will re-engage.  Rifle length gas, LMOS carrier, adjustable gas, compensator, somewhat heavy barrel....  If my dot is on the target when the first shot breaks it is rarely off the target as the second shot breaks.  I am pretty much shooting one sight picture, two shots, on hoser rifle paper.  


Vertical video example:  Old, old video....

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMYTdsc3FUQ

I double tap. I see my dot floating in the target. If it happens to float out of target I will reengage. Looking for 2 anywhere, I do just that if it's brown I pull the trigger. I can do this out to about 40yds.  I use a 16 and 18 inch gun, mid length and std carriers.

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For me it this is really simple, though not always easy ;)

 

What did the dot do during the shot or fast double?

 

Does not really matter if it is 3 meters to the target or 100 m off hand shot/shots

You need to know where the shot went, the old shot calling thing, regardless of speed or distance.

What can help in addition to proper training and stance, is of course a very good muzzle brake, adjustable gases and a light carrier, in my case an aluminium one.

 

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There are variables to your question. Is it full size paper out to 20yds, or reduced paper? Are you at an outlaw 3 gun where two hits anywhere within the scoring border neutralizes, at a match that uses Horner scoring or at an IPSC rifle match where hit factor scoring is used? I don't shoot 3GN so I am not familiar with all of the target presentations that they may have.

For full size paper at a two anywhere match, I look across the top of my rear sight (old irons shooter here) and use my front sight like a red dot. My rifle torques slightly to the right, so if I have a choice, I will shoot paper right to left, then the torque of the rifle will counter act the movement, causing a slight pause to the rifle and holding the hits closer together. Try setting up an array of targets fairly close and running them as fast as you can right to left and left to right and see what your hits look like.

 At a match where you are having to shoot A zones to be competitive, you have to use the sights more, like using the large aperture on the rear lining them up to break shots. Tuning your rifle for repeatability (for you) is a plus also.

Hurley

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I try to see a sight picture for every shot, even rifle splits faster than .15 on close paper. The closer the target the less picky I am about where the reticle is but I still see it. I've been experimenting with splits that fast on 12" paper at 45 yards a lot lately, it's definitely pushing the limits of my skill but I have found you can accurately call shots and know when a make up shot is needed and it makes the 18" 3GN or USPSA targets at 50 yards very easy.

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Inside 25 you can double tap and move on but I'm still watching the sights to see that the second shot was on the paper. At 50 you can get away with a rapid pair and still get two on paper but the second shot can be hard to say for certain unless you started with your sights perfectly dead center.  So a little slower controlled pair is necessary.

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It all depends on how YOU like to shoot, and how your gun recoils. If you like to get 2 hits on every paper, you aren't going to worry about a 5-10 second penalty. I've always found that you don't make up *that* much time in splits, but fast transitions and doing other things sooner, not faster. If you like matches with more accuracy, Blue Ridge Mountain in October is a great one. 

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Not getting a solid second sight picture and basically just pulling the trigger as fast as possible yields me doubles on each target where both shots are within a few inches of each other.  So given that there is no need for 2 alpha hits (as in pistol competition) and they just put need to be on paper, I would run the gun as fast as you can.

 

i think most of this has to do with my 10lb gun; shooting paper at 5 to 15 yards and recoil is basically not an issue for a heav gun.

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7 hours ago, yosturm said:

 run the gun as fast as you can.

 

  my 10lb gun;  shooting paper at 5 to 15 yards 

 

What about 25 - 50 yards ?

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I would get some of the 1/4th size ipsc targets and put them out at 15-20 yards. It’s tough to shoot them quickly and will improve your ability to shoot full sized targets at longer distances. You will rarely have to shoot paper beyond 25-35 yards in most matches anyway. 

Edited by Shooter116

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